1 Timothy 2:12
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Mon Oct 18 11:33:32 EDT 1999
There are two problematic points in this post that concern me: (1) the
interpretation of AUQENTEIN ANDROS as "act independently from (a/her)
man/husband" and (2) the interpretation of DIDASKEIN as functioning somehow
epexegetically to AUQENTEIN).
At 10:23 PM +0100 10/17/99, Michael Haggett wrote:
>Michael Abernathy wrote
>8:13 PM -0700 10/16/99,
>
>|I would like some feedback on two questions concerning 1 Timothy 2:12.
>|
>
>|Text: DIDASKEIN DE GUNAIKI OUK EPITREPW OUDE AUQENTEIN |ANDROS.
>|
>|2. Is the following translation viable?
>|I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority independent of
>her husband?
>
>I think you have rightly grasped the two possible meanings of AUQENTEIN,
>but I would doubt that you can have it BOTH ways at the same time, I think
>you need to choose between "to exercise authority" and "to be
>independent/autonomous". "One-off" NT words are always a little
>problematic, even if we look at the ways non-Christians used it at the
>same time or Christians came to use it later, it isn't conclusive proof
>about the way Paul (or whoever it was, to cut that objection off!) used
>it. Personally I would put some weight on the way the adjective
>AUQAIRETOS is used in 2 Cor 8:17, and think that Paul is likely to be
>talking of autonomy/independence rather than authority, for which EXOUSIA
>is consistently used in the NT.
There's my first problem. The usage of AUQAIRETOS as "of his own choice" in
2 Corinthians 8:17 is perfectly intelligible, but I don't see how it bears
upon the sense of AUQENTEIN in 1 Tim 2:12. Are there any other instances of
AUQENTEIN in the sense "act independently" with an ablatival genitive of
the one of whom one acts independently in Christian or non-Christian Greek?
There are sufficient examples , even if they be few,of AUQENTEIN with a
genitive of the person over whom one exercises authority, and such
genitives are common with verbs of exercising authority.
>1. Is it probable that authentein gives the purpose for the teaching which
>Paul forbids?
>
>If I read your question correctly, Michael, I would say yes. Although
>Carl says no:
>
>|In terms of the grammar of the sentence, I would not say it's probable:
>the |two infinitives are coordinated, which to me seems to indicate that
>|"teaching" is not in itself deemed an instance of exercising authority.
>
>I completely agree that the two infinitives ARE co-ordinated, and
>therefore that teaching, in itself, is not what Paul is prohibiting. But
>I would say that the linkage is only to AUQENTEIN (whichever option for
>you choose for it) NOT directly to men/husbands. So, to me, Paul is
>prohibiting the teaching (either by women or not) of autonomy/independence
>between the sexes, not the teaching of men by women. The alternative,
>that Paul is saying:
>
>"but I do not permit a woman/wife to:
>a. teach
>nor
>b. be autonomous of a man/husband"
>
>doesn't seem to do justice to the phraseology. For what it's worth, my
>translation would be:
>
>"but as to teaching, I do not permit a wife to be independent from a
>husband either" (the "either" referring back to the preceding verses, not
>to the teaching)
>
>This keeps the degree of ambiguity in the Greek between whether Paul
>means women teaching autonomously, or the teaching (by anyone) of
>autonomy/independence between the sexes.
Here's my second problem. Although you say that you agree the two
infinitives are coordinated, you evidently mean something different by that
from what I mean. I take both infinitives, DIDASKEIN and AUQENTEIN ANDROS,
as governed by OUK EPITREPW, I understand GUNAIKI as dative with EPITREPW;
I see the structure as elliptical so that the OUDE repeats GUNAIKI EPITREPW
to govern the second infinitive phrase, AUQENTEIN ANDROS. If the ellipsis
is filled in it would be:
OUK EPITREPW GUNAIKI DIDASKEIN
OUDE (EPITREPW GUNAIKI) AUQENTEIN ANDROS.
That is to say: I understand the author to be saying: "I don't allow a
woman to teach, nor do I allow a woman/wife to exercise authority over a
man/her husband."
Now do I understand your argument rightly? It would be:
OUK EPITREPW GUNAIKI DIDASKEIN AUQENTEIN ANDROS
OUDE EPITREPW (ANDRI DIDASKEIN AUQENTEIN GUNAIKOS).
That is to say: you intend AUQENTEIN ANDROS/GUNAIKOS to be what the author
forbids a woman (as well as a man) to teach--and you understand AUQENTEIN
with the genitive as meaning "act independently of."
That is to say: you understand the author to be saying: "I don't allow a
woman to teach being independent of a husband, nor do I allow a man to
teach being independent of a wife."
I would not say this is absolutely impossible, but it seems to me that the
elliptical elements are way too many to allow the Greek text we have before
us to bear that extensive a sense. Moreover, I think that if AUQENTEIN
ANDROS (or perhaps implicitly (GUNAIKA AUQENTEIN ANDROS) were the 'content'
of what is being taught, it would be more natural for this infinitive
AUQENTEIN to be enclosed in an article thus: DIDASKEIN DE OUK EPITREPW
GUNAIKI (TO) AUQENTEIN (GUNAIKA) ANDROS.
>I think that the use or non-use of the article isn't a decisive a factor
>in determining whether husband/wife or man/woman is meant here. The
>definite article seems to me to be far too capricious for that! Just
>figure it out from the context, but I'd go for husband/wife personally ...
>or is that just me being capricious!
This latter part concerns me less. In view of what follows in 13-15 I guess
one could argue either way, that the reference to Adam and Eve in 13-14
points to marriage partners, although the curious shift from singular
SWQHSETAI (scil. hH GUNH) in the first clause of 15 to the plural MEINWSIN
(scil. hAI GUNAIKES) in the second clause of 15 seems to point more toward
the role of women in the faith generally rather than of wives in particular.
As I said in an earlier post, I don't particularly like this text (1 Tim
2:11-15), but my liking or not liking it has nothing to do with what I
think the Greek actually means.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics/Washington University
One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
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