Fwd: Re: hOUTWS ... hWSTE (To Carl)
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Apr 6 06:28:48 EDT 2000
Moon-Ryul Jung has asked that I forward this off-list response which I sent
him to his last message on this thread. It's essentially a highlighting of
items in an earlier message of mine in the thread on hOUTWS in John 3:16.
>From: "Moon Ryul Jung" <moon at saint.soongsil.ac.kr>
>To: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
>Subject: Re: hOUTWS ... hWSTE (To Carl)
>Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:10:20 +0900
>
>Carl, thanks for your comments.
>Yes, these two examples are what I sought for. I have read all of your
>posts in
>this thread. I think these two examples, especialy the first one, will
>affect the listers' mind greatly. This thread was one of very informative
>lessons.
>Thanks again for your insight. This kind of learning experience and excitement
>was not common in my journey to the study of the biblical languages.
>
>I hope that you would share these examples with other members.
>
>Moon
>
>Moon-Ryul Jung
>Associate Professor
>Dept of Digital Media
>Sogang University,
>Seoul, Korea
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>Carl W. Conrad
>To: <mailto:moon at saint.soongsil.ac.kr>Moon-Ryul Jung
>Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:39 PM
>Subject: RE: hOUTWS ... hWSTE (To Carl)
>
>OFF-LIST:
>
>Dear Moon, I'm writing this off-list as I think the matter may be getting
>tedious for list-members who've already settled the matter for themselves,
>and also because the only response I can offer you is from Sunday, April 2
>in a reply to Jason that you may have missed. The fact is that there
>aren't that many instances of this construction in the GNT although it's
>common enough in classical Attic and, although I haven't done a search in
>extra-biblical Koine Greek texts, I suspect it's not less common there.
>
>At 4:36 AM -0500 4/5/00, Moon-Ryul Jung wrote:
>>Dear Carl,
>>
>>I am inclined to your logic in this matter. Your point is:
>>
>>Another way to phrase the difference between your way of reading John 3:16
>>and my way is to say that yours emphasizes a semantic relationship between
>>hOUTWS and adverbial antecedents implicit or explicit in what preceded,
>>whereas mine emphasize a syntactic relationship between hOUTWS and hWSTE.
>>
>>The issue could be easily resolved by finding examples where there are no
>>implicit or explicit antecedents for hOUTWS. Could you find some?
>
>The only such instance with hOUTWS and hWSTE is Acts 14:1 (EGENETO DE IN
>IKONIWi KATA TO AUTO EISELQEIN AUTOUS EIS THN SUNAGWGHN TWN IOUDAIWN KAI
>LALHSAI
>h O U T W S h W S T E PISTEUSAI IOUDAIWN TE KAI hELLHNWN POLU PLHQOS. =
>"And it happened in Iconium at the same time that they entered into the
>synagogue of the Jews and spoke such that a sizable throng of both Jews
>and Greeks came to faith.")
>
>The other GNT instances cited below show TOSOUTOI rather than hOUTWS as
>the introductory word in the main clause, and hWSTE or another sort of
>result-clause (such as hOPWS ... in 1 Cor 6:5. There is no conceivable
>antecedent in either instance; what I'm arguing is that the demonstrative
>in the main introductory clause functions syntactically to point ahead to
>the result clause: "SO MANY loaves ... AS TO feed so great a throng" or
>"SO WISE ... THAT HE will be able to judge ..." (where the relative
>pronoun hOS is equivalent to hWSTE AUTON + inf.).
>
>At 1:04 PM -0500 4/2/00, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>
>>At 4:54 AM -0500 4/2/00, Jason Hare wrote:
>>
>>cc: «My own sense here is rather that hOUTWS ... hWSTE constitutes a
>>standard "consecutive" pattern having an emphatic adverb in an initial
>>clause followed by hWSTE with an infinitive or an indicative verb in a
>>result clause.»
>>
>>Are there any other instances that you can give of this kind of use. That
>
>>might be interesting to note. Thanks.
>
>
>The classical construction is a simpler one with hOUTWS or some other
>qualitative or quantitative adverbial expression (e.g. TOSOUTOS/H/O or
>TOIOUTOS/H/O either modifying the verb or an adjective or another verb in
>the main clause and a hWSTE introducing either a finite verb clause (for
>an ACTUAL result) or an infinitive (for a NATURAL or PROBABLE result).
>There are also some less frequent variants to this pattern. Cf. Smyth's
>grammar, ##2273-2278.
>(http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/text?lookup=smyth+2273&vers=english&browse=1)
>and LSJ hOUTWS III
>(http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/lexindex?lookup=ou(/tws&lang=greek)
>
>In the GNT the pattern is less consistent; there may be hWSTE as in John
>3:16 or in Acts 14:1 (EGENETO DE IN IKONIWi KATA TO AUTO EISELQEIN AUTOUS
>EIS THN SUNAGWGHN TWN IOUDAIWN KAI LALHSAI h O U T W S h W S T E
>PISTEUSAI IOUDAIWN TE KAI hELLHNWN POLU PLHQOS. = "And it happened in
>Iconium at the same time that they entered into the synagogue of the Jews
>and spoke such that a sizable throng of both Jews and Greeks came to
>faith.") or Matthew 15:33 (KAI LEGOUSIN AUTWi hOI MAQHTAI: POQEN hHMIN EN
>ERHMIAi ARTOI T O S O U T O I h W S T E CORTASAI OCLON TOSOUTON. = "And
>his disciples say to him, 'Where do we have in the wilderness loaves
>sufficient to feed a crowd this large?'")
>
>or there may be a hOPWS clause, as in Matthew 5:16 (h O U T W S LAMYATW
>TO FWS hUMWN EMPROSQEN TWN ANQRWPWN, h O P W S IDWSIN hUMWN TA KALA ERGA
>KAI DOXASWSIN TON PATERA hUMWN TON EN TOIS OURANOIS, = "Let your light so
>shine before people that they see your good works and glorify your father
>in heaven.")
>
>
>or there may be a relative clause functioning to indicate the result, as
>in 1 Cor 6:5 (h O U T W S OUK ENI EN hUMIN OUDEIS S O F O S, h O S
>DUNHSETAI DIAKRINAI ANA MESON TOU ADELFOU AUTOU? = "Is there nobody so
>wise amongst you that he won't be able to judge a matter?")
>
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics/Washington University
One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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