List protocol re: Eph 5:18, EN PNEUMATI
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Jul 25 07:46:50 EDT 2000
At 5:57 PM +0000 7/24/00, B.J. Williamson wrote:
>>By the way, I just checked the first passage, Mt 3:11, and found
>>EN hUDATI ... EN PNEUMATI hAHIWi KAI PURI translated (NKJV)
>>"with water ... with the Holy Spirit and fire."
>>
>>That is, why not just take it consistently throughout as: I baptize
>>with water ... but He will baptize with holy spirit and fire?
>>
>>Paul
>
>
>Does it not seem apparent to all that this discussion should have concluded
>a long time ago?
>
>I would not say these suggested translations by Paul are "bad" Greek; I
>would say that they are "not" Greek, at all. Paul has decided how he will
>"interpret" this, so is there anything left to say?
>
>Paul is guilty of imposing his (false) theology into this passage, but we
>all do that occasionally. The point is that when we get "caught," we must
>humbly acknowledge it. If that does not take place, move on.
>
>I, for one, vote we move on.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>B. J. Williamson
Others besides B.J. may have come to the view that Paul has been "beating a
dead horse" over the issue above, and Paul has consequently shifted the
subject header to "Definiteness of Anarthrous Nouns in Prepositional
Phrases." My own sense is that this may be worth pursuing a bit further in
its own right, however we may judge for ourselves the question whether EN
PNEUMATI must necessarily refer to the Holy Spirit.
I do think, however, that the phrasing of B.J.'s second and third
paragraphs cross the line spelled out in the List Netiquette which is sent
to every new subscriber and which is published at intervals on list, to wit:
"D. Netiquette:
"1. Respectful discourse: Those who participate in the conference
represent a wide range of theological and denominational perspectives,
perhaps even including some whose interests are purely academic. Deep
religious convictions surely characterize many, perhaps most, of the
list-participants, and some of these convictions bear directly upon how the
Biblical text is to be understood. At the core of our discussion, however,
is not what our convictions are but what the Greek text may legitimately be
understood to mean. If discussion of this nature is to succeed, proper
respect and courtesy to other list members is important. While scholarly
debate, including disagreement, is encouraged as a goal of this conference,
attacks upon the character, intelligence, or faith of those participating
are not acceptable. Criticism must focus upon the arguments of others; it
may not be directed to the individual. Those who violate this policy will
be contacted politely by the B-Greek staff and requested to conform to
these guidelines. Those who continue to violate the policy will no longer
be welcome in the conference."
I do not think there is anything malicious in B.J.'s message, a judgment
which I find constated by his phrase "but we all do that occasionally" and
by the "Respectfully" preceding his signature. Nevertheless, I think that
B.J.'s message offends against list protocol (a) in that it offers a
theological judgment upon Paul's argumentation in the ongoing thread--but
we have repeatedly urged list-members not to discuss theology but focus on
possible meanings of a Biblical Greek text based upon morphological,
syntactical, lexicographical or other appropriate methodologies, and (b) in
that it specifically states that Paul has imposed a "false" theology upon
the passage in question (Eph 5:18).
Now it may well be that one or two or several B-Greekers really do agree
with that assessment, but most, I hope, are aware that it is detrimental to
list discussions as well as a violation of list protocol to make such an
assertion openly on list. The point to bear in mind here is that we wish
neither to promote as being "true" nor to disparage as being "false" any
particular theology which any list-member may hold: B-Greek is open to
believers (of all kinds) and non-believers alike and there are no
assumptions about orthodoxy governing our discussions. We believe that, so
long as we can keep our discussion focused upon the legitimate
possibilities for understanding Biblical Greek texts and legitimate
questions about the nature of the Biblical Greek language, we can all of
us, no matter what our angle of belief or unbelief may be, profit from and
learn from discussion with each other.
I cite a portion of this message written and sent to me by B.J. early this
morning:
At 12:26 AM +0000 7/25/00, B.J. Williamson wrote:
>After careful consideration, and with great pain, I have decided to remove
>myself from this list.
>
>I wish this list the best!
>
>Please pass on my apologies to any I have offended.
While B.J. is certainly free to leave the list if that is what he feels he
must do, I have already written him and urged that he reconsider. Others
whom I shall not name have violated list protocol and have been contacted
by the B-Greek Staff regarding the violations and have apologized and
continued to be productive contributing members of the list. I have myself
on occasion violated the list protocol and I have offered my apologies upon
discovering that I had done so. I do hope that B.J. will reconsider.
And that, I also hope, will be enough said about this matter. Let's get
back to discussing Biblical Greek.
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
Summer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad at ioa.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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