A question from a novice!

Steven Lo Vullo doulos at chorus.net
Sun Mar 19 23:43:50 EST 2000


Barry,

There is, no doubt, much truth to what you say regarding AGAPAW and its derivatives in many, if not most, contexts in the NT. However, to say "it always shows itself through actions of goodwill," and that its basic meaning is "doing what is best for someone ... regardless of how you feel about them" I think confuses contextual usage with inherent meaning. For example, how did the Pharisees' love (AGAPATE) for the "chief seats in the synagogues" and "respectful greetings in the marketplaces" (Luke 11:43) exhibit "actions of goodwill" or "doing what is best for someone?" The surrounding context shows that they had very little regard for the well-being of others, and their actions substantiated this. Or take John 3:19. How does the love (HGAPHSAN) of men for darkness show "actions of goodwill" or "concern for others," particularly since they love this darkness rather than Christ himself (the Light that has come into the world). Then there is John 12:43, which states that Jesus' opponents "loved (HGAPHSAN) the approval of men rather than the approval of God." Certainly they were not possessed of an attitude of goodwill for others, or doing what was best for them; they simply used others to bolster their own self-image, and that at the expense of pleasing God. One more example should suffice. In 2 Timothy 4:10 Paul says "Demas, having loved (AGAPHSAS) this present world, has deserted me." Now, what sort of goodwill and concern for Paul does this action reveal? And does not this verse indicate that AGAPAW in certain contexts does connote emotional attachment? After all, it was not an action of "goodwill" toward the world or "doing what is best" for the world that motivated Demas to desert Paul, but a sinful emotional attachment to it. And speaking of emotion, what about texts like John 3:35, 10:17, 11:5, 13:23, 14:31, 19:26, and 21:7. Does the love spoken of in these verses contain no emotional element at all, no tender affection?

Please do not misunderstand. I appreciate the insights you offered in relation to how AGAPAW and its derivatives are used in many contexts in the NT. But I think we must be careful as a general rule not to equate usage and inherent meaning. This is a habit that will drive us to pigeonhole words without giving due consideration to their semantic range and contextual usage.

Steve LoVullo,
Madison, WI
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Barry D. Murrell 
  To: Biblical Greek 
  Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 8:50 PM
  Subject: Re: A question from a novice! 


  Peter,
   
  In doing my own research into the meaning of AGAPAW and how it relates to the other words in Greek which are translated "love", I came to the conclusion that AGAPAW is not centered on an warm emotional attachment (while the others ARE emotionally motivated in one degree or another) it always shows itself through actions of goodwill. It could be perhaps best described as doing what is best for someone (even applied inward toward oneself in cases of selfishness) regardless of how you feel about them. The emphasis is upon the action and not upon the emotion.

  Therefore, in some contexts AGAPAW might speak of the various "spins" which many have mentioned in this thread, but one thing which AGAPAW always seems to speak of is love which is expressed in ACTION which is NOT attached (or motivated) by emotion.

  I have often spent time wondering why we see AGAPE and its various forms used so much and the others used so little. Then one day it dawned upon me that it is because God has in fact called us to action. Your original question of this thread got me thinking about it again. The post which spoke of the time variations in word meaning got me back into the thread and all of the variations found and brought out in the various posts moved me to jump in. 

  You know, perhaps the reason why so many misunderstand the intention of the word "love" found in the Bible is because our modern concept of "love" is emotion based. If people approach the message of the Bible with an emotion based picture of love then they will never really grasp the full meaning of what God is calling his people to do. As an example I would cite Matthew 5:44, where Jesus tells us to AGAPE our enemies. If we try to apply the "warm fuzzy" paradigm surrounding love in OUR world then this command of Jesus causes much distress and confusion. However, if we apply the idea mentioned above then the command makes sense and is achievable. If we apply this same idea to the various relationship passages then we really get a dose of reality. For example, Ephesians 5 suddenly says, "Husbands, do what is best for your wives regardless of how you feel." 
   
  In fact, it was this passage (Ephesians 5:19-ff) which first put me onto this idea. (Also the "second greatest" command (Mark 12:31) where the "pattern" for the love (AGAPE) that we are to give to our neighbor is that which we are already giving to ourselves. The love which a man gives to "his own flesh" (Ephesians 5:29) and that which a person gives to themselves is not emotion based, but action based. It is consistent, it is ongoing, it is not dependent upon an accompanying warm feeling in the heart. 
   
  To me this is what distinguishes AGAPAW. 

  Hope this helps..

  Barry D. Murrell
  Missionary/Director 
  Christian Learning Center
  Cebu City, Philippines


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Peter Osborne." <s351016 at student.uq.edu.au>
  To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 4:10 AM
  Subject: A question from a novice!


  > Hi,
  > I have a question on the definition of AGAPH:  What distinguishes this word
  > from other Greek words meaning love?  From its usage in 1 John 3:16 and
  > elsewhere, I have always connected this word with self-sacrifice or self
  > denial.  However hardly any lexicons I have used seem to make this link.  Am
  > I correct in believing that AGAPH is self-denying love and this is what
  > distinguishes it from other Greek words for love?
  > 
  > Peter Osborne.
  > 
  > 
  > ---
  > B-Greek home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bgreek
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