the use of future

Carsten Schmelzer storch at storchsites.de
Fri Apr 6 11:21:49 EDT 2001


dear bgreekers,

thank you for your answers. maybe the differnces between german and english are bigger than i thought (although i read a lot of english i seldom speak or write). in german the difference between imperative and indicative is big. and so a translation like "töten wirst du nicht" (mat 5:21, translation walter jens) instead of "du sollst nicht töten" (mat 5:21, elberfelder translation) sounds strange.
there is indeed a theological currence, that prefers the translation of simple future and i wonder if it is possible to translate that way. 
maybe my question was not exactly enough: is it possible (from the mere language-aspect) to translate a simple future in these scripture?
and: is it for grammatical or for theological reasons that theses scriptures are mostly translated as imperative?

thank you,

storch

-----------------------------------------------------
Carsten *Storch* Schmelzer
Jesus Freaks International
Germany
http://www.kultshockk.de
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard and Drinda Luckensmeyer 
  To: Carsten Schmelzer 
  Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:45 AM
  Subject: Re: [b-greek] the use of future


  Dear Carsten:
  There is no future imperative mood in Greek.  Only present active, pres. mid. and pass., aorist active, aorist mid., and aor. passive forms exist.  There is no future imperative form.  Since it is a commandment, the imperative force is equally there with either will or shall and since the command involves the future there is no other choice of mood or tense (except of course for the speaker wishing to have an ongoing durative sense or a point action sense in which case the aorist would be used).  I think that your question has to deal with the difference between the words shall and will.  Here is a blurb in my American dictionary about when to use shall or will, "The formal view on the use of shall and will is that to indicate simple futurity shall is used in the first person, will in the second and third; THEIR ROLES ARE REVERSED TO EXPRESS DETERMINATION, COMMAND, inevitability, etc., while in questions  the choice depends on the form expected in the answer.  These rules apply to American usage only at the most formal level.  In general usage in the United States today will, in all persons, is used to express futurity and usually to express DETERMINATION, etc., as well."

   So there you have it - it does not matter which is used, they both work.  Earlier formal writing in the U.S. used shall for 2nd and 3rd persons indicating a command for the future.  Now-a-days we just don't usually distinquish either/or for casual speech.  In English we indicate a command by use of the exclamation point at the end of the sentence.  If you said, "You will love thy neighbor." it would be simple futurity.  But if you said, "You will love thy neighbor!" the voice would put emphasis on the word will and simple futurity would give way for the command mood.  But 2nd person future indicative would probably use shall in older formal writing and the exclamation point would show the command.  Greek has no exclamation point so we determine the translation by context.  Jesus used the present tense to indicate durative action.  We are commanded to do it and to keep on doing it.  

  Richard Luckensmeyer
  cotton farmer, Wee Waa, NSW, Australia
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Carsten Schmelzer 
    To: Biblical Greek 
    Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:33 AM
    Subject: [b-greek] the use of future


    hello,

    in jesus quotation of the commandments he uses very frequently the 2nd person singular future indicative (i.e.lk 10:27,mat 22:39). why is this form always translated as an imperative?
    "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself (mat 22:39)". would it not be more exactly to translate: "you will..."?
    in about 10 german versions i just found one (walter jens) who translates not an imperative but "normal future".
    is the futureform normally used as an imperative?

    thank you,

    storch

    -----------------------------------------------------
    Carsten *Storch* Schmelzer
    Jesus Freaks International
    Germany
    http://www.kultshockk.de
    ---
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