ude 7

Paul Schmehl p.l.schmehl at worldnet.att.net
Tue Mar 27 13:16:26 EST 2001


According to LSJ, the word only appears in the Bible and in Poll. 6. 126
(which I assume is Pollux.)  There are no other occurences of it in the
Greek texts that they house.

According to BAG ( I don't have BAGD ), the word occurs in Poll. 6, 30,
Test. Dan 5.5, LXX and Jude 7.  I don't have access to Pollux or Dan, so I
can't check those out.  Perhaps someone with access to the TLG could do a
more intensive search.

Also, according to LSJ (and Robertson's Word Studies), the word appears in
Genesis 38:24 in the LXX and is used metaphorically, of idolatry, in Ex
34:15 in the LXX.

I wonder why you think the *only* sin that was committed was inhospitality.
Do the relevant texts preclude the possibility that more than one sin was
involved?  Also, if inhospitality *was* the only sin, why did God destroy
Sodom and Gomorrah?  It's hard for me to imagine destroying thoses cities
simply (and only) because they were inhospitable.

Paul Schmehl
p.l.schmehl at worldnet.att.net
http://www.utdallas.edu/~pauls/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Leman" <wleman at mcn.net>
To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Cc: <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:59 AM
Subject: [b-greek] ude 7


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim West" <jwest at Highland.Net>
>
>
> > At 09:06 AM 3/27/01 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> > >That sounds like a statement of fact, Jim, whereas I would think it
would
> be
> > >more accurate to phrase it as a statement of scholarly conclusion
> (perhaps,
> > >even, hypothesis). It seems to me a more scientific approach to the
> lexical
> > >semantics of EKPORNEUSASAI would be to look for all occurrences of the
> word
> > >and its morphological alternates in biblical as well as extra-biblical
> > >contexts and attempt to induce from all those occurrences what the
> meaning
> > >of the word was. I am *not* suggesting a meaning for the word, only
> > >addressing the issue of scientific methodology here.
> >
> > well it is a statement of fact that the sin of sodom was inhospitality.
>
> When did this sin take place? Before Genesis 19? If so, where is this sin
> described?
>
> Who was inhospitable, Lot (the righteous one who was saved from
destruction)
> for not welcoming the men who wanted to enter his house? The towns people
> for not welcoming the guests to their homes?
>
> > thats why i make it as a statement.  it is also a fact that the rest of
> the
>

> > verse describes the sexual immorality of sodom and gomorrah.  hence, in
> the
> > mind of jude, the two are NOT the same or he is being totally redundant.
> > now, that accusation can hardly be made of jude, who is so fond of
economy
> > of words that he scarcely (never) repeats himself in the text at all.
> > hence, the common understanding of ekporneuw is inadequate at best and
> > misleading at worst.
>
> I think that your logic here is reasonable, Jim, but it doesn't preclude
> some redundancy on Jude's part. Redundancy is a normal part of human
> language, even in the language of a writer like Jude who wrote
economically.
>
> The scientific tension here, then, would be between a small amount of
> redundancy versus a rather large leap in terms of lexical semantics in
your
> original question (see my closing comment).
>
> >  therefore, and heres where my post became a question,
> > i wondered if anyone knew of any text where the word is used in the
sense
> of
> > ihospitible.
> > i truly appreciate your concern with my methodology but i can assure
you,
> i
> > have it well in hand.
> > so, do you know of any text where the word is used in this sense? (i
mean
> > besides here in jude of course)
>
> No, and I doubt that we will ever find one. In terms of statistical
> probability, there is so much lexical distance between the core meanings
of
> EKPORNEUW and AFILOFRONWS (and related forms) that it is highly unlikely
> (scientifically, that is) that we will ever find any relationship between
> them, even metaphorically. But we've been up against slim odds before and
> have found new language insights, so your original question is still
> appropriate to ask.
>
> Wayne
> ---
> Wayne Leman
> Bible translation site: http://www.geocities.com/bible_translation/
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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