Sentences in Greek, possibles
Mark Wilson
emory2oo2 at hotmail.com
Thu Aug 8 08:50:39 EDT 2002
Randall:
You wrote:
-----
> >No one "thinks KOINE Greek" today. If that is
> >your objective or hope, you are sure to fall short.
> >Linguistically, that can not happen.
>
>That's an interesting proposition.
>"Cannot happen."
>
>Would that mean that if I said
>'je voudrai du cafe'
>in a French cafe
>that I was not thinking in French --
>if I had not been born there?
>(NB: French spelling mistake is intentional, reflecting pronunciation.)
-----
Yes, I AM claiming that no one THINKS in their second language. And
I AM also saying that it is impossible to THINK in a dead language,
no matter how much one devotes himself/herself to studying it.
But THINKING Greek is a far cry from UNDERSTANDING Greek. I believe
Carl Conrad has attained an UNDERSTANDING of Greek at the highest
scholarly level, but THINKING IN GREEK is something else.
When you HEAR an English sentence spoken (assuming English is your
mother language), your brain is actually performing billions
of calculations per second, sifting and analyzing every word,
phrase. Nuances and innuendos are analyzed. Words that make absolutely
no sense if taken literal are "intuitively" dismissed.
This is a very basic overview of THINKING in a language. To attempt
to learn a language that has been dead now for centuries, and then
to come to the point that you can THINK in that language is
a physical impossibility. But again, that is not to say that we can
not understand the language.
Remember, we have about 1 percent of the Koine language at our
disposal. Expose yourself to 1 percent of even a living language, French
for example, and then see if you think IN FRENCH. I say that it is
linguistically impossible.
I would be willing to bet that less than 2 percent of the scholars
on this list could recite John 3:16 in GREEK. More could probably
write it if that had time to ponder a while. But remember, we are
talking about THINKING in a language. The ability to recall things
that one has read in ancient Greek is not what I am talking about.
Memory and THINKING are two different functions of the brain. One
uses their ability to THINK in order to recall stored data (memory).
Enough already :o )
You then ask:
--------
>Does that mean that a person cannot learn a second language?
>We know about language interference, and mistakes by second
>language learners. But when speaking fluently are they not
>thinking in that language? Even with mistakes?
--------
I think this is a fair question! Note above that I have distinguished
between being able to remember things and THINKING. Thinking is that
part of the brain that can do billions of calculations per second
without consciously using the memory.
I must admit that I am influence greatly by my brother, who is
a psychiatrist.
Would it be acceptable if I allowed for MINIMAL "thinking" in
a dead language? Technically though, what is happening here is
that your brain is consciously checking the memory bank, not
thinking on an intuitive, native level.
Finally,
-------
>I think there is alot more to be said on both sides, but at much
>different levels of language use than that which is normally
>considered 'adequate' in Koine Greek studies.
--------
How often I forget Wittgenstein's law: There are no real disputes,
just vague and undefined terms!
I appreciate the tone of your letter here Randall.
And let me quickly apologize publicly for any I have offended
with my previous posts on this thread. I find that my passion at
times disrupts my ability to THINK :o )
More thoughts,
Mark Wilson
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