Sentences in Greek, possibles
Chuck Tripp
ctripp at ptialaska.net
Thu Aug 8 23:20:51 EDT 2002
Mark Wilson wrote:
> >Yes, I AM claiming that no one THINKS in their second language.
and
John Schwandt wrote
> Mark, are you fluent in any other language besides English? I would
> enjoy hearing testimony from people who are fluent in a second language
> and have spent significant time in the culture which surrounds the
> second language.
I would disagree with the notion that no one thinks in their second language
if for no other reason than my own personal life experience.
I moved to Quebec and went to the french language school system when I was
about 14 years old. I did my last two years of high school in French and as
well as two years of college. Even in High school, but particularly in
college, i lived my life in French. While in college the only time I had
any exposure to English was when I called home and when I went to church on
sunday. I can say that without a doubt i thought in French most of the time
and that it took some mental effort at times to switch back in English.
There were occasions when people would catch me off guard speaking to me in
English and it would take me a sentence or two to 'tune in' which I thought
was rather bizarre. There finally came a point in time when I finally had
to decide which was going to be my primary language and I decided, being a
resident of North America, it was going to be English and subsequently
decided to continue my education in an English language university. I knew
one american in a similar situation who had married French Canadian and her
English wasn't that good at all. There was no doubt whatsoever as to what
language she thought in. To this day, even though I have lived in the U.S.
13 years now, a certain portion of my thought still occurs in French. It is
somewhat subject matter dependent.
I think if you ask people who immigrated to the U.S. many years ago, I think
you'll find that they think primarily in English though memories and though
certain subject matters still occur in their other language. That will
depend on the level of their immersion into the culture.
What this has to do with learning greek? It relates a couple of ways. One,
I think Mark Wilson has a point that even on a greek scholar's greekest day,
no more than a percentage or two will be spent in Greek. I think that is
partly what has frustrated me at times with greek as compared to my french
experience. There was just no way I could imerse myself in greek that way I
did in French. I think it would be very difficult for a person to reach the
point where thoughts spring to life in the brain in greek, i.e koine greek.
On the other hand, there are some attainable goals that would be very
useful. When I was learning French, one of the first things to go was
'converting to english.' I think it is quite possible to read a text in
Greek and not mentally translate. I think one of the keys to that goal is
volume.
Chuck Tripp
Kodiak, Alaska
----- Original Message -----
From: John Schwandt <jschwandt at nsa.edu>
To: Biblical Greek <b-greek at franklin.metalab.unc.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 10:41 AM
Subject: [b-greek] Re: Sentences in Greek, possibles
> Mark Wilson wrote:
>
> >Yes, I AM claiming that no one THINKS in their second language. And
> >I AM also saying that it is impossible to THINK in a dead language,
> >no matter how much one devotes himself/herself to studying it.
>
> Mark, are you fluent in any other language besides English? I would
> enjoy hearing testimony from people who are fluent in a second language
> and have spent significant time in the culture which surrounds the
> second language. I know it is possible to think in new languages. I
> have experienced thought in Greek and then a moment later realized that
> I was thinking in Greek. I have dreamed in Greek. It must be possible
> to think in a second language. How else is learning new aspects of our
> own language possible? Right now my two year old son does not even come
> close to using relative clauses and I confuse him if I use them. Yet he
> can and does think in English (as well as thinking non linguistically
> -lets not linguists corner the market on thought). Relative clauses are
> a foreign "language" to him, yet he will soon learn how to understand
> them as well as use them in his thinking process.
>
> He is also a good counterexample to your "1 percent" concern. He
> probably only knows 1% of all the English that I know. I am a far cry
> from knowing what percentage of English I know. No one knows 100% of
> any language not even great minds like Shakespeare. Languages are
> always in a state of change. Even "dead languages" (BTW biblical Greek
> is no more a dead language than Elizabethan English is. At most it is
> merely a dead dialect) when view as a snapshot have forms and syntax
> that are questionably part of the language or vary from village to
> village. Nevertheless my son at his 1% level is able to think in
> English. To say that since we only have 1% of biblical Greek (I have no
> idea how you could even assess such a percentage without knowing the
> whole), there is no way we can think in biblical Greek is a non sequitur.
>
> One more counterexample:
> I have spent some time in Greece working toward fluency in modern Greek.
> I often talk to my son in biblical Greek and use many Greek picture
> books. I am convinced that when he wishes to give thanks for something
> he often thinks EUXARISTW and he often thinks "thank you." Even if it
> is only thinking one word, I believe that is sufficient to prove that we
> can learn to think in another language.
>
>
> ERRWSO (I thought it)
> John Schwandt
>
>
> ---
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