Mark 1:6a
Harry W. Jones
hwjones2 at earthlink.net
Sat Dec 7 05:18:04 EST 2002
If I may ask. What would be the controlling verb of ENDEDUMENOS in this
sentence or passage?
In His Grace,
Harry Jones
The fool has said in his
heart,there is no God. Ps. 14:1
But they that wait upon the
Lord shall renew their
strength. They shall run
and not be weary. And they
shall walk and not faint. Isa. 40:39
> [Original Message]
> From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>
> To: Biblical Greek <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Date: 12/6/02 10:14:20 PM
> Subject: [b-greek] RE: Mark 1:6a
>
> >
> > Mark 1:6a
> > KAI HN hO IWANNHS ENDEDUMENOS TRICAS
> > KAMHLOU KAI ZWNHN DERMATINEN PERI THN
> > OSFUN AUTOU . . .
> >
> > The morphological information in Logos indicates that ENDEDUMENOS is
> > a passive participle. If the participle is passive, why are TRICAS
> > and ZWNEN DERMATINEN is the accusative?
>
> Good question, Barbara. Ask those who did the Logos tags. The Friberg tags
> mark it as middle, and I suppose Carl and I would prefer to mark it MP1.
>
> Have a look at
> Matt 27:31/Mk 15:20 KAI ENEDUSAN AUTON TA hIMATIA AUTOU
>
> The basic form of this verb takes two accusatives in Greek. In semantic
> terms we have "A clothes B (or E) in/with P", where A=agent (the one who
> performs the action), B=beneficiary (the one who benefits from the action,
> i.e. here the one who is being clothed) and P=patient (the object that
> "suffers" the action, i.e. here the clothes). The "patient" role is also
> called the "undergoer" because it refers to who or what undergoes the
> action. These are the three basic roles, but there are several other
needed
> ones, such as the "experiencer" role (E). This one is somewhat in between
> the agent and beneficiary role. And it is probably better to use
> "experiencer" than "beneficiary" for the verb "to clothe". One reason is
> that the beneficiary is normally in the dative case in Greek, whereas the
> experiencer is normally accusative as with this verb.
>
> With verbs of perception, the "agent" (the one who sees) is also better
> termed the "experiencer". In this case, the agent/experiencer would be in
> the nominative. When the experiencer and agent are co-referential, I would
> expect a middle form of the verb in Greek. This is what occurs in Mark
1:6.
> John is both the agent and the experiencer, or in other words "he has put
> clothes on himself".
> (This looks like a reflexive in English, but I suspect the term reflexive
is
> better limited to the cases where the agent is co-referential to the
> patient, like in "he hit himself". I have not checked the Greek reflexives
> in terms of semantic roles, and whether a true reflexive is used or a
middle
> form will probably also depend on the verb in question, e.g. SWZW occurs
> with reflexive pronouns rather than in MP1. In any case, the term
> "reflexive" is syntactic, and therefore less helpful for an understanding
of
> how different languages operate than semantic roles are.)
>
> Since it is more normal in adult human behaviour that you dress yourself
> than someone else is dressing you, it is to be expected that the MP1 forms
> of ENDUW greatly outnumber the basic/active forms. (24 MP1 forms in the
GNT,
> and only three basic forms covering two situations: soldiers put the
clothes
> of Jesus on him, the father orders the lost son to clothed in a fine robe.
> (Mt 27:31, Mark 15:20, Luke 15:22.)
>
> There are no passives (MP2) of this verb in the GNT (acc. to Friberg
tags).
> This is not surprising, since the passives are semantically derivatives of
> the basic/active forms which are rare. A possible passive would be "the
> clothes were put back on Jesus (by the soldiers)" or "the fine robe was
then
> put on the lost son (by the servants)". Such constructions would put focus
> on the patient (the clothes), and it would be fitting for a situation
where
> royal robes were transferred from one king to another, and the focus on
the
> royal robes as symbolic of power would be natural. In such passives the
> agent is NOT co-referential with the experiencer. The agent may or may not
> be supplied, in English through the use of "by" and in Greek through the
use
> of hUPO (sometimes EN, but I suspect that EN is used with roles other than
> agent, especially experiencer.)
>
> If I ever were to teach Greek in a classroom, I think I would consider
this
> verb a good one to teach the active, middle and passive distinctions.
>
> Iver Larsen
>
>
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