1st versus 2nd Future Passives

Clwinbery at aol.com Clwinbery at aol.com
Fri Dec 13 10:39:10 EST 2002



In a message dated 12/12/02 3:40:12 PM, dixonps at juno.com writes:

>
>At this point it might be good to review the question under discussion.
>
>It appears the total number of future passives is 295 (according to the
>morphological search on Logos).  But, this includes both 1st and 2nd
>future passives.  Apparently, the total of 1st future passives is
>somewhat less, maybe even 271, as suggested by my earlier search with the
>rather complex search parameters set (apparently no other way to
>determine 1st future passives on Logos).
>
>I thought the question related to the first future passives indicated by
>the -QH* ending.  It dealt particularly with whether the first future
>passive forms could be either middle or passive in meaning.  Perhaps
>others were thinking that the 2nd future passive forms tended to be more
>middle than passive.  If so, this helps clarify the discussion
>considerably.  I really haven't studied the 2nd perfect passives and it
>may be that they are more middle than passive, after all.
>
>Paul Dixon
>
Using the latest Accordance based on the N-A27 revised text I get 296 hits 
when I enter Verb Future passive indicative. These are the ones tagged by the 
program. It includes all the forms without Theta such as ANOIGHSETAI. 

There are many of these that cannot be translated as strict passives and some 
that are transitive (G.B. Caird liked to call them not true passives).  I 
like Carl Conrad's term "subject intensive." I am convinced that "passive 
deponent" ignores the fact that the lexical nature of the verb so used 
affects how greek speakers understood these structures. I am not yet to the 
point where it seems helpful to call them middle. Perhaps Carl Conrad's 
explanations from the history of the development of the middle voice and 
passive voice can help. Right now I am struggling with how to revise both 
syntax and grammatical studies to help students deal with it without having 
to unlearn inadequate terminology. Perhaps some learning and unlearning is 
inevitable.

I am now going to read Carl's long reply on the future passage and learn some 
more.

grace,

Carlton Winbery
Louisiana College



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