genitive in John 1:3
Harry W. Jones
hwjones2 at earthlink.net
Sat Dec 14 16:32:10 EST 2002
Dear Bert,
No Bert. The preposition DIA is needed to futher clarify the function of
the genitive AUTOU. No, you couldn't be certain of the exact sense the
genitive is to have without the preposition even though the context
suggests agency as the function of AUTOU. The use of DIA over hUPO in
the phrase DI' AUTOU indicates intermediate agency vs ultimate agency than
if hUPO had been used instead.
Harry Jones
> >
> > From: "Harry W. Jones" <hwjones2 at earthlink.net>
> > Date: 2002/12/14 Sat AM 08:57:06 GMT-05:00
> > To: Biblical Greek <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Subject: [b-greek] Re: genitive in John 1:3
> >
> >
> > Dear Mike,
> >
> > If I understand you correctly you are not asking why AUTOU is in
> > the genitive case but why it's not translated as we are taught in
> > basic Greek, as a possessive. But the genitive form can be used in a
> > number
> > of different senses or functions depending on the context.
> > With the possessive sense being only one of them. In this context Christ
> > is being presented as the agency by which all things came into existance.
> > Therefore the genitive form for agency was use for this function rather
> > than the accusative form for cause. And the connecting preposition DIA
> > used between the verb EGENETO and the genitive direct object AUTOU to
> > to farther clarify this relationship. So Mike that would be why AUTOU
> > is translated as "him" in this passage.
> >
> >
> > Harry Jones
>
> Harry; If the genitive can indicate agency,does that mean that this sentence would make sense without the preposition?
> Bert de Haan
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Mike Dewus" <dewus at bluemarble.net>
> > > To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 8:46 PM
> > > Subject: [b-greek] genitive in John 1:3
> > >
> > >
> > > > John 1:3 reads, PANTA DI AUTOU EGENETO...was wondering why
> > > > the genitive AUTOU is used but the translation is him; same with KAI
> > > > CWRIS AUTOU EGENETO later; thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Mike Dewus
> > >
> > > Mike, the pronoun is genitive because it is the object of the preposition DIA,
> > > which takes the genitive when denoting instrumentality. In English, "through"
> > > takes the objective "him" not the possessive form "his."
> > >
> > > Since the immediate antecedent of the pronoun is LOGOS, I have often wondered if
> > > translating it with the impersonal pronoun in English would better capture the
> > > force, as the author builds up to the person of Christ in the incarnation in
> > > John 1:14ff.
> > >
> > > N.E. Barry Hofstetter
> > > Adjunct Professor, CUTS
> > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nebarry
> > > Moderator:
> > > Reformed Theology Discussion
> > > rtdisc at yahoogroups.com
> > > Biblical Exegesis Group
> > > bibexegesis at yahoogroups.com
> >
> > ---
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> >
> >
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