genitive in John 1:3 [correction]

Harry W. Jones hwjones2 at earthlink.net
Sun Dec 15 04:34:58 EST 2002




 PANTA  DI'  AUTOU EGENETO KAI CWRIS  AUTOU EGENETO OUDE hEN.

Since the subject of EGENETO is *all things*---I believe that PANTA is
being used
attributively  as a neuter plural to the implied subject of EGENETO--- and
since Christ(AUTOU) is the agency by which all things are brought into
existence(ie, the subject is being acted upon) then the verb EGENETO would
not have a direct object.

Harry Jones


> [Original Message]
> From: Harry W. Jones <hwjones2 at earthlink.net>
> To: Biblical Greek <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Date: 12/14/02 6:06:00 AM
> Subject: [b-greek] Re: genitive in John 1:3
>
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> If I understand you correctly you are not asking why AUTOU is in
> the genitive case but why it's not translated as we are taught in
> basic Greek, as a possessive. But the genitive form can be used in a
> number
> of different senses or functions depending on the context.
> With the possessive sense being only one of them. In this context Christ
> is being presented as the agency by which all things came into existance.
> Therefore the genitive form for agency was use for this function rather
> than the accusative form for cause. And the connecting preposition DIA 
> used between the verb EGENETO and the genitive direct object AUTOU to
> to farther clarify this relationship. So Mike that would be why AUTOU
> is translated as "him" in this passage.
>
>
> Harry Jones
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Dewus" <dewus at bluemarble.net>
> > To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 8:46 PM
> > Subject: [b-greek] genitive in John 1:3
> > 
> > 
> > > John 1:3 reads, PANTA DI AUTOU EGENETO...was wondering why
> > > the genitive AUTOU is used but the translation is him; same with KAI
> > > CWRIS  AUTOU EGENETO later; thanks.
> > >
> > > Mike Dewus
> > 
> > Mike, the pronoun is genitive because it is the object of the
preposition DIA,
> > which takes the genitive when denoting instrumentality.  In English,
"through"
> > takes the objective "him" not the possessive form "his."
> > 
> > Since the immediate antecedent of the pronoun is LOGOS, I have often
wondered if
> > translating it with the impersonal pronoun in English would better
capture the
> > force, as the author builds up to the person of Christ in the
incarnation in
> > John 1:14ff.
> > 
> > N.E. Barry Hofstetter
> > Adjunct Professor, CUTS
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~nebarry
> > Moderator:
> >   Reformed Theology Discussion
> >      rtdisc at yahoogroups.com
> >   Biblical Exegesis Group
> >      bibexegesis at yahoogroups.com
>
> ---
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