Tagging (was "Middle & Passive Aorist & Futureforms)

Harry W. Jones hwjones2 at earthlink.net
Tue Dec 17 08:34:29 EST 2002



I know a little about computer programming and I know that there is a limit
to what a computer program can do. I wouldn't think that Gramcord could go
much beyond the form of NT Greek words. And that it would have to work from
a predetermined list of deponents in marking them . Am I correct?

Harry Jones




> [Original Message]
> From: Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> To: Biblical Greek <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Cc: Biblical Greek <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Date: 12/16/02 4:26:20 PM
> Subject: [b-greek] Re: Tagging (was "Middle & Passive Aorist &
Futureforms)
>
> I've changed the header because we now have a thread on "Tagging."
>
> At 11:10 AM -0800 12/16/02, Dr. Dale M. Wheeler wrote:
> >To All:
> >
> >I think there has been a serious misunderstanding of what I was saying
(or
> >perhaps a mis-speaking on my part)....and the misunderstanding has
rapidly
> >spread...I got a note from Dan Wallace this morning from Germany
indicating
> >that he'd heard that I was planning on changing the GRAMCORD tags!  Let
me
> >say this clearly:  I'm not changing the GRAMCORD tags!
> >
> >Here's what I said to Dan (in a slightly altered form):
> >
> >>The only thing I've said is that I agree with Carl that the concept of
> >>deponency is fine for Latin, but it really doesn't explain the M/P
> >>phenomenon in Greek.  This conclusion has only been strengthened while
> >>I've been fixing the tagging on the MorphLXX.
>
> I'll want to say something more about the question of properly tagging
> Greek verb-forms for voice, but I'll put that off. One brief (foot)note
> now: I honestly don't believe that the concept of deponency "is fine" for
> Latin any more than it is for Greek. First of all, so-called "deponent"
> verbs in Latin are no more "exceptions to a rule" in Latin than such verbs
> are in Greek. SEQUOR in Latin works exactly like hEPOMAI in Greek. If
VOLVO
> in Latin means "I cause to roll," VOLVOR means "I
> roll/turn-myself-over-and-over." Latin passive verb forms  may more often
> than not bear a passive sense, but it would be more truthful to say that
> the -r/ris/tur/mur/mini/ntur morphoparadigm is "middle-passive" just as is
> the Greek MAI/SAI/TAI/MEQA/SQE/NTAI morphoparadigm. I learned Latin long
> before I started learning Greek, but it was only after I learned the
middle
> voice in Greek that the Latin so-called "deponent verbs" fell into place
> for me. All those verbs that take an instrumental ablative as if it were a
> direct object are fundamentally middle voice: UTOR, POTIOR, VESCOR,
FUNGOR,
> etc.
> -- 
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad at ioa.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
> ---
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