Roman 3:23
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Jul 5 19:39:17 EDT 2002
Thank you so much, Richard, for providing this information, not only the
definitions of the comparable Modern Greek verbs, but also the three Modern
Greek versions of Rom 3:23. And thank you even more for taking the pains to
transliterate the verb phrases and the text into the conventional b-greek
transliteration scheme. I know how time-consuming and effortful that is
from having done it myself several times.
My comments will follow under the relevant cited material.
At 12:17 PM -0400 7/5/02, Richard Ghilardi wrote:
>Dear Carl and b-greekers,
>
>On Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:16:41 -0400 "Carl W. Conrad"
><cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> writes:
>>
>> Yet another hypothesis (and it is no more than that) has come to my
>> mind:
>> Might there conceivably be some confusion between this verb
>> hUSTEREW, a
>> denominative verb clearly derivative from the adjective hUSTEROS and
>> the
>> verb STEREW/STEREOMAI ("deprive (of), be wanting/lacking")? The verb
>> STEREW
>> does not at all appear in the GNT, but it appears 19x in the LXX, 9x
>> active, 10x. My "hunch/guess--no more than that--" is that hUSTEREW
>> as an
>> intransitive verb commonly took "active" form in earlier Greek and
>> that in
>> Koine it was being influenced be STEREOMAI.
>
>[snip]
>
>> I have no access to a good (or even an indifferent) Modern Greek
>> dictionary; I'm cc'ing Manolis on this in hopes that he can help us
>> on
>> whether there's a modern Greek verb equivalent to
>> hUSTEREW/hUSTEREOMAI and
>> whether or not it's middle (passive) in form. If any one else has
>> access to
>> an unabridged Modern Greek dictionary, please assist us. The APORHMA
>> may
>> not be earth-shaking in importance, but it's an interesting one.
>> --
>>
>
>Here are the entries for USTERW and STERW from D. N. Stavropoulos' Oxford
>Greek-English Learner's Dictionary, 1988:
>
>USTERW vi 1) be inferior to sb, not be good enough, fall short of: ~EI
>TOU ADELFOU TOU SE EUFUIA, he is inferior to his brother in intelligence,
>he is not so intelligent as his brother. ~EI STA MAQHMATIKA, he's weak in
>maths, he is not very good at maths. H EPIDOSH SOU ~EI, DEN EINAI AUTO
>POU PERIMENAME, your performance falls short of our expectations. DEN ~W
>OUDENOS*, I'm second to none. 2) be lacking/wanting in, lack, not have:
>~EI SE EUGENEIA, he's lacking in courtesy. ~EI SE PEIRA, he lacks
>experience, he has no experience. 3) (KAQUSTERW) lag behind, be late. 4)
>deprive (BL. L. UPOLEIPOMAI, STERW)
This is interesting indeed; it indicates that MG, like the Koine, still
uses the active form in an intransitive sense, but also indicates in sense
(4) that it is used like MG STERW (Koine STEREW)--and I take it that
"BL.L." means "see in addition" = BLEPE LOIPON?
>STERW vt 1) deprive [sb of sth], bereave, deny, dispossess, strip, stint,
>take away, go/do without, miss [out on sth], go short [of sth]: TOU
>STERHSAN OLA TOU TA DIKAIWMATA, they deprived him of all his rights.
>~HQHKE TO FWS TOU, he was deprived of his eyesight. O POLEMOS TOU STERHSE
>TON PATERA, the war bereft him of his father. DE ~EI THN OIKOGENEIA
>TOU/TON EAUTO TOU APO TIPOTA, he denies his family/himself nothing. OI
>EUGENEIS ~HQHKAN THN PERIOUSIA TOUS/OLOUS TOUS TITLOUS TOUS, the nobles
>were dispossessed of their property/were stripped of all their titles.
>~OUMOUN EGW TO FAI GIA NA 'COUN TA PAIDIA, I stinted myself of food so
>that the children would have enough. AN SOU ~HSOUME THN ADEIA
>ERGASIAS/ODHGHSEWS, if we take your work permit/your driving-licence away
>from you.... DEN MPORW NA ~HQW TIS DIAKOPES MOU, I can't to without a
>holiday. OLA TA PRAGMATA POU ~HQHKA STH ZWH MOU, all the things I had to
>do without/to go without in my life... ~EITAI TO GLUKO MHPWS KAI PACUNEI,
>she does without all sweet/she misses out on the sweet for fear of
>putting on weight. QA ~HQEIS MIA SPANIA EMPEIRIA AN DEN PAS, you'll miss
>out on a rare experience if you don't go. ~HQHKA THN AGAPH SOU, I missed
>your love. DE QELW NA ~HQEIS EXAITIAS MOU, I don't want you to go short
>on my account. ~OUMAI TA PANTA GIA TA PAIDIA MOU, pinch and scrape for
>one's children. 2) (STEROUMAI) lack, want, be without, fml be
>destitute/devoid of: ~EITAI QARROUS, he lacks courage, he's
>lacking/wanting in courage. DE QA ~HQOUN TIPOTA, they'll want for
>nothing. DE QA S' AFHSW NA ~HQEIS STA GERATIA SOU, I won't let you want
>in your old age. ~OUMAI EIDHSEWN TOU, I have no news from him, I haven't
>heard from him. ~OUMAI TA ANAGKAIA KEFALAIA, be without the necessary
>funds. ~EITAI KOINHS LOGIKHS, he is destitute/devoid of common sense.
Of interest here is that the "passive" form is used in the middle sense and
does indeed convey the same sense as Koine hUSTEROUMAI; that emerges from
your citations OI EUGENEIS STERHQHKAN THN PERIOUSIA TOUS/OLOUS TOUS TITLOUS
TOUS and STEROUMOUN EGW TO FAI GIA NA 'COUN (= Koine ECWSIN) TA PAIDIA.
It's evident also that the old (ablatival) genitive is used with it in the
MP STEREITAI KOINHS LOGIKHS.
>I cannot evaluate how helpful they are in answering your question. FWIW,
>here are 3 MG versions of Rom 3:23:
>
>MPAMPAS, 19th cent.: EPEIDH PANTES hHMARTON, KAI hUSTEROUNTAI THS DOXHS
>TOU QEOU.
If this is a translation at all, it's the old Katharevousa literary
language: it's identical with the Koine Greek of Paul!
>BELLAS, 1967: DIOTI hOLOI hAMARTHSAN KAI STEROUNTAI THS QEIAS DOXHS.
This is Demotic: hOLOI for PANTES, old 2nd aorist into a 1st aorist, and,
not altogether surprisingly, STEROUNTAI for hUSTEROUNTAI. I think this
strengthens my hunch that the shift to MP forms of hUSTEROUMAI from older
active forms is assisted by the shared sense of the MP forms of
STEREOMAI/STEROUMAI. I suspect too that another factor may be some tendency
of apocope of initial vowels in verb forms of more than 3 syllables (loss
of E-augment in pluperfects of more than 3 syllables or in modern Greek
past tense forms of more than 3 syllables). This is still speculation, but
I'm not as fearful as I was at first that it's really quite far-fetched.
>IWANNIDHS, 1994: GIATI OLOI AMARTHSAN KAI BRISKONTAI MAKRIA APO TH DOXA
>TOU QEOU.
>The last version chooses to depart from a more literal rendering as being
>less comprehensible to modern thought. I english it thus:
>
>because all have sinned and find themselves far from God's glory.
>
>I think this captures the essential thought without having to determine
>whether sinners have a measure of God's glory (but not quite enough) or
>whether they are devoid of it altogether.
This is more solidly Demotic; BRISKONTAI is ancient hEURISKONTAI and MAKRIA
is ancient MAKRA and the 1st decl. acc. has lost -N. Even in Koine the MP
of hEURISKW is used in the sense of "turn out to be"--cf. Louw & Nida:
13.7 hEURISKOMAI: to be in a state which has not been anticipated - 'to be
found to be, to discover to be, to turn out to be.' MHPOTE KAI QEOUMACOI
hEUREQHTE 'that you may not be found to be fighting against God' Ac 5:39;
hEUREQH MOI hH ENTOLH hH EIS ZWHN hAUTH EIS QANATON 'this commandment which
was for the purpose of life was found in my case to be one which produced
death' Ro 7:10.
My thanks again to Richard. I'd still like to hear from a native Greek;
Manolis, where are you?
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
Most months:: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad at ioa.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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