The Proleptic Aorist revisited

Harry W. Jones hjbluebird at aol.com
Sun Jun 2 10:06:21 EDT 2002


Dear Mark(Wilson),

I appreciate you long response to my last post. You answered my question
which should have been "Is the DC idential to the present tense time of
a particular passage?". Your answer was,
> 
> I think you might be thinking of Present Tense as something
> that happens NOW. The Present Tense denotes an action that
> occurs simultaneously with the DC, regardless of where IN
> ACTUAL TIME the DC has/is/will occur.
> 

which I take as a yes to the above question.

Thanks for your help Mark.

Best Regards,

Harry Jones


> Harry:
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> -------
> >I've been thinking about the theory of the Deictic center but I
> >don't see how a Deictic center could be proven without showing
> >the it is not in the same time slot as a present tense in the
> >same passage. I don't believe I've seen any evidence that shows
> >the Deictic as occupying such a different time slot. I hope you
> >understand what I'm getting at Mark.
> -------
> 
> I am sorry Harry but I am not sure what your question is here.
> 
> The Deictic Center really is not a theory; it is a linguistic
> term that, as far as I know, all linguists accept... some may
> define it slightly different, but overall, this is really a
> fairly basic linguistic term.
> 
> Porter quotes Comrie here:
> 
> All temporal reference in Greek, therefore, is not absolute time
> but relative time, "where the reference point for location of
> a situation is some point in time given by the context, not
> necessarily the present moment."
> 
> Let me repeat that last part...."point in time given by the
> context, not necessarily the present moment."
> 
> Lyons says, deixis is "the location and identification of persons,
> objects, events, processes, and activities being talked about,
> or referred to..." (Semantics, pg. 637)
> 
> Think of the "point in time given by the context," that is, the
> deictic center, as the point in time FROM WHICH the author wants
> to make temporal statements.
> 
> Let's look at the passage in Rev.:
> 
> Rev. 10:7
> 
> hOTAN MELLHi SALPIZEIN KAI ETELESQH TO MUSTHRION TOU QEOU
> 
> 
> To make things easy, let's assume tradition is correct and
> this verse was written by Prochorus (John's secretary) in 96 AD.
> The present time of writing therefore was in 96. Let's further
> assume it still references a future event from today, 2002 AD.
> 
> So, when Prochorus wrote these very words at the instruction
> of John, he was describing a future time/event.
> 
> The Deictic Center in this verse is WHEN THE TRUMPET SOUNDS.
> (Note that the DC is unrelated to the Present time, Past
> time, or Future.) The DC becomes a conceptual "fixed" point FROM WHICH
> the author will make temporal statements. If he/she wants to
> reference a temporal event that occurs at the same time as
> the DC, he/she will use a Present tense (generally).
> 
> But in this verse, the temporal reference "in relation to the DC"
> is an Aorist (ETELESQH) because the author is drawing
> our attention to an event that is PRIOR TO the DC.
> 
> So, WHEN THE TRUMPET SOUNDS, that is, the DC, the mystery of
> God will have already ceased by that moment (the moment of the
> DC).
> 
> The conceptual "fixed point" is developed by the author, and
> then the author, after conceptualizing the DC, will begin to
> place temporal statements in relation to that DC by the use
> of TENSE, and perhaps other grammatical features as well.
> 
> And just to be redundant, if the author wants to refer to an event
> that took place prior to the DC, the author will use a
> past tense verb (for example, an Aorist).
> 
> I think you might be thinking of Present Tense as something
> that happens NOW. The Present Tense denotes an action that
> occurs simultaneously with the DC, regardless of where IN
> ACTUAL TIME the DC has/is/will occur.
> 
> I think we have occupied enough time on B-Greek with this
> topic, so if you have additional questions, perhaps it would
> be best to respond again OFFLIST.
> 
> Mark Wilson
> 
> 
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