ENESTERNISMENOI (Was: De-Inflection Software?)

Richard A. Stauch rstauch at charter.net
Sat Sep 21 19:23:05 EDT 2002


Hi Peter (and thank you, Carl),

The Unbound Bible site you posted is up and running. I just went and
looked up GUNH, and found it to be almost what I want. Close, but it
seems to be another LXX/GNT lexical program. I should like to contact
BIOLA University, who are responsible for the Unbound Bible site, to see
if they have anything in mind such as we are discussing.

The other software you cited (Words) is exciting, and very much like
what I want. Unfortunately, Latin is not of very great interest to me.
Also, the source for the program is not offered. I might contact them,
too, to see if they will make it available (though I don't hold out much
hope for that), or if they are thinking of doing the same thing for
Greek.

Also, I should point out that BibleWorks has been talking about adding a
diagramming tool to their engine, which also may answer my needs. We'll
have to wait and see, though.

BTW, off-list I have had ENSTERNIZOMAI pointed out to me (thank you
Steve), which is the entry in BDAG that covers the word I was looking
for (ENESTERNISMENOI). I don't know how I missed it before, but I did
(MEA CULPA).

As it stands, I am becoming VERY interested in starting such a project.
Just to briefly state the business case (yes, I was a Systems Engineer
for EDS for over 8 years, and it ruined me): This is a project that
should not be attempted with fewer than 3 programmer/analysts and 2
content controllers.
- A front-end/feature leader (windows/dialogs/controls/overall
appearance/functionality and help system)
- A database designer/analyst (fonts/tables/triggers and I/O)
- A programmer/analyst (coding/testing/debugging)
- A Greek scholar who can supply and maintain lists of word types, their
interrelationships, word stems, as well as lists of prefixes, infixes,
and other parts of normal words, not to mention lists of irregular
words.
- A Greek specialist who can help with the testing/debugging.
This means a team of at least 5 people working on a project for
approximately 2 years part time (nine months if we could get funding to
go full time) to produce a truly professional application.
Every stem of every word that exists in every ancient Greek document
would have to be listed and organized according to part of speech (noun,
verb, adjective, adverb, etc.), with every possible inflection string,
and every possible accent rule, so we are talking about a serious
database.
We would have to consider carefully our client base, too. This is not
something that would sell cheaply (at least $200 by the time it is ready
for release; I would be willing to pay more, if it existed). Marketing
costs money, and so do CD-R disks, labels, packaging and
warehousing/shipping. We have to consider if the costs are worth the
possible distribution level.
It would have to support different Bible research packages (BibleWorks,
Accordance, etc.), so it would need to provide options to select things
like the font to use, whether to transfer accents, &C. 
This would have to be accomplished in C++ or some other object-oriented
language. The size of the database, and demands of the software really
require speed. HTM or other kinds of solutions just won't cut it.

My work building the morphological database and English translation for
the Apostolic Fathers (using BW5's Version Database Compiler) is very
good for me, and progressing apace. I am learning. Still, I would like
to combine those favorite hobbies of mine (computers and Greek), so I am
tempted to actually begin the work now. For instance, I counted the
text-morphology strings in the BibleWorks LXX/Apocrypha/GNT databases,
and they add up to 64,500 unique strings [not a lot for a computer
program to handle]. I can search that file very quickly using NotePad.
If I had a similar table of roots and root-stems, how many unique
records would that be? Far less, I am sure. How many more would there be
if we added the roots and root-stems found in all other ancient Greek
documents? How many prefixes, reduplication syllables, infixes, thematic
vowels, tense stems and declension suffixes would a complete list add up
to? I think it would be quite manageable.

Finally, Smyth writes, "As far back as we can follow the history of the
Indo-European languages we find only complete words; hence their
analysis into component morphological elements is merely a scientific
device for purposes of arrangement and classification" [193 N].
Nevertheless, if we took the rules and tables listed in Smyth Parts II
and III, boiled them down and added tables of roots and such, a computer
could use them much more quickly than a human can. And when we consider
that a computer program is nothing but an extension of human
capabilities, it isn't really cheating, after all. I believe this is a
project that can be done, and I am very surprised that, so far, it has
not.

Well, we'll see,
Richard Allan Stauch
Long Beach, CA
http://www.rstauch.com
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl W. Conrad [mailto:cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu]
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 2:31 PM
> To: Biblical Greek
> Subject: [b-greek] De-Inflection Software?
> 
> Forwarded:
> 
> From: "Peter Kirby" <kirby at earthlink.net>
> To: Biblical Greek <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Subject: [b-greek] De-Inflection Software?
> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 12:59:11 -0700
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard A. Stauch" <rstauch at charter.net>
> To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 9:51 AM
> Subject: [b-greek] ENESTERNISMENOI (Was: De-Inflection Software?)
> 
> > I hope that makes my need plain. I do want to learn to read the
Greek
> > for pleasure and study, but I need something that can fill in for my
> > lack as I sit, now. If it does not already exist, I will begin the
> > project myself.
> 
> I have been holding back from posting the link because the Unbound
Bible
> site has been down.  But before you start on such a project, you might
> like
> to know that the folks there have made a CGI application that will
parse
> words in the New Testament to show the root word and the inflection
> information such as gender, number, tense, etc.
> 
> http://unbound.biola.edu/greek_search/index.cfm?lang=English
> 
> And this link is to show that the link above worked once.
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?q=greek+parser
> 
> Hopefully you can bookmark the web page and find that the link works
in a
> few days.
> 
> If you do decide to write a parser program, please get in touch.  I
and
> someone I know would be interested in collaborating so as to make a
> Greek-to-English program similar to Whitaker's one for Latin.
> 
> http://users.erols.com/whitaker/words.htm
> 
> I agree that such tools are useful as an aid to learning and as a
crutch
> while one's knowledge is still imperfect.  People are allowed to use a
> computer without being a programmer, or to make web pages without
knowing
> HTML, so they should be permitted to struggle through Greek without
being
> fluent, and any tools that can help them are good.
> 
> best,
> Peter Kirby
> 
> --
> 
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> Most months:: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad at ioa.com
> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
> 
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [rstauch at charter.net]
> To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-
> 145275F at franklin.oit.unc.edu
> To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu
> 






More information about the B-Greek mailing list