EPISPAOMAI in 1 Cor 7:18
Steven Lo Vullo
slovullo at mac.com
Sun Sep 22 21:43:38 EDT 2002
On Sunday, September 22, 2002, at 07:52 PM, Richard A. Stauch wrote:
> I'm sorry, I thought I was clear. Let me disabuse everyone of the
> misconceptions I allowed to be drawn.
>
> 1) I never addressed the issue of "parties," or "being drawn away." I
> actually intended to make a different point, which Steven seems to have
> taken correctly.
Yes, the point you made was quite different from that which Mark made.
The reason I commented on your take vis-a-vis Mark's was that I was
having trouble understanding exactly what they had in common, since you
began your post by saying you thought Mark had "swerved into it," which
would seem to express some agreement with what he was saying. All I was
pointing out was that your comments didn't provide any support for
Mark's suggestion, though the beginning of your post would lead one to
think you were headed in that direction.
> 2) The last part of the second paragraph should have been a separate
> paragraph. The word "Here" should have been expanded to "In this
> context." I did not intend to imply that the word EPISPAW (in any form)
> could be taken to mean "add circumcision." I certainly never said so.
I wouldn't even comment on this except for the fact that you imply
below that I didn't take the time to understand you. But you quite
clearly indicate it is *EPISPAW* that BDAG says sometimes is used to
mean "in addition to." Then after saying that 4 Macc 5.2 uses a similar
word in a similar way (which I can only take to mean "in addition to"),
you immediately suggest, "Here we might think of Paul saying "don't add
circumcision." Why would you comment on EPISPAW meaning "in addition
to" if you had no intention of using it in that way? And is it just a
coincidence that almost immediately after saying EPISPAW may mean "in
ADDITION to" you suggest the gloss "don't ADD circumcision"? I honestly
don't know how I could have drawn any other conclusion, no matter how
long and carefully I might have pondered your words.
> 3) I unfortunately indicated that the two different forms of EPISPAW
> were different "words." That is not exactly what I meant. They are
> different forms of the same word, and I certainly know that. The way
> those two forms are used (between 4 Macc. 5:2 and 1 Cor. 7:18) is
> different, and BDAG addresses that.
Again, I wouldn't have responded but for your concluding remarks. I can
only understand what you actually say, no matter how long I might
ponder it, and what you actually said was "a very similar word," not "a
very similar form" (which still doesn't seem to make sense). This most
naturally indicates you understood different words, not different
forms. Furthermore, "word" and "form" are not interchangeable, and the
*forms* of the two words cannot reasonably be called "similar," since
one is an imperative and the other an infinitive. If it is argued that
both forms are in the *same* tense and voice, then the word *similar*
still does not apply, for in that respect they are the *same*, not
*similar*. I don't mind at all your clarification, since we all make
mistakes and express ourselves imprecisely at times, but to imply I am
somehow to blame for all this is unreasonable.
> I guess I just expect people will take a little more time to try to
> understand me. My fault.
>
> Peace,
> Richard Allan Stauch
> Long Beach, CA
> http://www.rstauch.com
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steven Lo Vullo [mailto:slovullo at mac.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 4:20 PM
>> To: Biblical Greek
>> Subject: [b-greek] Re: EPISPAOMAI in 1 Cor 7:18
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2002, at 05:36 PM, Richard A. Stauch wrote:
>>
>>> I think Mark has swerved into it. The whole context helps us
> understand
>>> a little more about what Paul means here. Paul seems to be saying
> that
>>> God calls a person right where that person is. If one is Jewish, God
>>> does not intend that person to cease to be Jewish. If God calls one
> who
>>> is a Gentile, God does not expect that one to cease to be a Gentile.
>>> The
>>> circumcision, being a work of the flesh, is a sign of Jewishness,
> not
>>> of
>>> the calling. It seems Paul is going deeper than the mere act of
>>> circumcision, but to the whole life: If God calls one just as one
> is,
>>> then to change who one is mitigates, even negates the calling.
>>
>> This no doubt contains much truth. But it in no way supports Mark's
>> suggestion of circumcision and uncircumcision "parties," nor does it
>> support understanding EPISPASQW in the sense of "be drawn away," i.e.,
>> to a putative "uncircumcised party."
>>
>>> As for the word itself, this appears to be a compound word (EPI +
> SPAW;
>>> on, over + draw, pull [out]). BDAG (EPI, at 7) tells us that it is
>>> sometimes used to indicate "in addition to". 4 Maccabees 5:2 uses a
>>> very
>>> similar word (EPISPASQAI) in a very similar context, which most of
> my
>>> lexica connect to this one, but BDAG disagrees. Here we might think
> of
>>> Paul saying "don't add circumcision [as though to change who you
> were
>>> when you were called]." God calls one just as one is, so don't think
>>> you
>>> have to change who you are {as though by one's own efforts one can
> make
>>> the calling "complete."}
>>
>> As I understand it, BDAG does not suggest that EPISPASQAI in 4 Macc
> 5.2
>> is a different word from EPISPASQW, only that it does not reflect
> "this
>> special use," i.e., the special use of EPISPAOMAI (EPISPAW in BDAG) in
>> 1 Cor 7.18 for the undoing of circumcision.
>>
>> It is not possible to take EPISPASQAI to mean "add circumcision." In
>> this case the exhortation MH EPISPASQW would make no sense, seeing
> that
>> it is the already-circumcised to whom it is addressed (PERITETMHMENOS
>> TIS EKLHQH, MH EPISPASQW). In this case we would have, "Was anyone at
>> the time of his call circumcised? Let him not add circumcision."
>> ============
>>
>> Steven R. Lo Vullo
>> Madison, WI
>>
>>
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