[B-Greek] Greek Syntax from Papias
Polycarp66 at aol.com
Polycarp66 at aol.com
Tue Dec 2 15:47:59 EST 2003
In a message dated 12/2/2003 3:16:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dhoxworth at charter.net writes:
TOUS TWN PRESBUTERWN ANERINON LOGOUS, TI ANDREAS H TI
PETROS EIPEN H TI FILIPPOS H TI QWMAS H IAKWBOS H TI
IWANNHS H MATQAIOS H TIS hETEROS TWN TOU KURIOU MAQHTWN A
TE ARISTIWN KAI hO PRESBUTEROS IWANNHS, TOU KURIOU
MAQHTAI, LEGOUSIN
...I would carefully ask about the words of the
presbyters, what Andrew or what Peter had said or what
Philip or what Thomas or James or what John or Matthew or
any other of the disciples of the Lord, and which Aristion
and the presbyter John, disciples of the Lord say too.
A couple of questions:
1. Could hO PRESBUTEROS IWANNHS be rendered or understood
as "the aforementioned John"?
2. How is hO PRESBUTEROS IWANNHS to be best understood? Is
it "John the Elder" or "Elder John" (a sort of title) or
"the Elder--that is John" or "The elder who I just
metioned above--John", etc.?
Not only is John designated as "PRESBUTEROS" -- so are Andrew, Peter, Philip,
Thomas, James, John and Matthew in the first section. I see no reason to
understand it differently with regard to one of the second group (of two), viz. a
second John. It would seem, however, that the second group of two are in
addition to the first. Why would PRESBUTEROS take on a meaning nowhere else
attested? When reference is made to one previously mentioned we see
* hOUTOS * hO IHSOUS hO ANALHMFQEIS AF' hUMWN . . . [Acts 1.11]
It should be noted that Eusebius (who quotes this from Papias) apparently
failed to understand Papias. He states "[Papias] by no means declares that he
was himself a hearer and eye-witness of the apostles" and states further "he
shows by the words which he uses that he received the doctrines of faith from
those who were their [scil. the apostles'] friends. This is immediately after
calling him "a hearer of John." Was Papias a hearer of John or was he not?
gfsomsel
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