[B-Greek] a carefully phrased question

Ann Nyland accuratebibles at ozemail.com.au
Mon Dec 8 22:18:09 EST 2003


Yes, cf. Peter's attitude to Cornelius when he PROSKUNEWed him, Acts 10:26.

Ann Nyland

----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Pietersma" <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
To: "Ann Nyland" <accuratebibles at ozemail.com.au>
Cc: "Albert Pietersma" <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>;
<Polycarp66 at aol.com>; "Biblical Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] a carefully phrased question


Allow me to intrude with a interesting reference to and interpretation
of PROSKUNHSIS from the Septuagint. In the Prayer of Mordecai (Greek
Esther 4:17d Mordecai says: "You know, Lord, that it was not because of
HUBRIS or pride or vainglory that I did this, namely not to do
PROSKUNHSIS to the haughty Haman . . . but in order that I not place
the glory of a human above the glory of God." This is, of course,
reminiscent of the well-known PROSKUNHSIS episode of Alexander the
Great in Bactria (modern Afghanistan). When Alexander wanted his Greek
troops to do obeisance to him in the same way the Persians did, many of
the Greeks angrily accused him of trying to become a god (Cf. Arrian IV
9.9; 10. 5; 11.1, 3 et al). What both passages show is NOT that
PROSKUNEW  invariably means "worship" of a deity, but that both in the
Greek world and the Jewish world it was easily so construed.
Al
On Monday, December 8, 2003, at 07:16 PM, Ann Nyland wrote:

> The verb PROSKUNEW appears in the papyrus letter CPR 19 (prov.
> unknown, ist
> or 2nd c), in a likely client-patron relationship. ...EKEI hH TUXE SOU
> EPETREYE hHMIN hINA SE PROSKUNHSWMEN KAI ASPASWMEQA SE. (l.7)
> The noun is in l. 11.WS KAI SO GAR hHMWN EMNHSQHS PAR' hEKASTA KAT'
> EPISTOLHN, hOUTWS KAGW ENQADE TO PROAKUNEMA SOU POIW...
>
> Horsley translates the verb here as "greet you with respect" and the
> noun as
> "act of worship".  At any rate, Greg (G.H.R.) Stanton (of University
> of New
> England, Australia) wrote a paper on PROSKUNEW some years ago - I
> can't find
> the ref. right now. He made much of the Persian influence, and the
> stress on
> the (persian) falling to the knees. If anyone wants the ref. I will
> find out
> what it is.
>
> Deissmann doesn't have it. Moulton & Milligan have "'do obeisance to,'
> 'worship,' used generally of a god, as P.Flor III. 332" - they also
> mention
> Ptolemaic isncrip. - also P.Giss I.II (of a slave to ehr master);
> P.Tebt.II.286 which they trans. as "respect",. They note that
> PROSKUNHMA
> (not in NT) is used in innumerable pagan letters. They also note a
> 6th/7th
> c. use (in P.Oxy. I) of PROSKUNHMA as "obeisance".
>
> Ann Nyland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Polycarp66 at aol.com>
> To: <brian_magnuson at juno.com>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 8:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] a carefully phrased question
>
>
>> In a message dated 12/8/2003 1:31:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> brian_magnuson at juno.com writes:
>> A translation translates the word proskuneo as obeisance and worship.
>>
>> Strong's : G4352
>> s???e´?
>> roskuneo¯
>> pros-koo-neh'-o
>>> From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like
>>> a
>> dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is,
>> (literally
>> or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to,
>> adore): -
>> worship.
>>
>> Could this greek word for worship be translated obeisance? I have not
>> been able to find a dictionary to support this. I believe this
>> directly
>> relates to translation and does not name names and is very specific.
>> This is from BGAD (Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich and Danker--A Greek-English
> Lexicon
>> of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature).  You
>> should
> get
>> yourself a copy of the new edition known as BDAG (Bauer, Danker,
>> Arndt and
>> Gingrich).  It's indispensible for New Testament study.
>>
>> PROSKUNEW impf. PROSKUNOUN; fut. PROSKUNHSW; 1 aor. προσεκύνησα
>> (trag.,
>> Hdt.+; inscr., pap., LXX; En. 10, 21; Ep. Arist., Philo, Joseph.,
>> Test. 12
>> Patr.) used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before a
>> person
> and
>> kissing his feet, the hem of his garment, the ground, etc.; the
>> Persians
> did
>> this in the presence of their deified king, and the Greeks before a
> divinity or
>> someth. holy; (fall down and) worship, do obeisance to, prostrate
>> oneself
>> before, do reverence to, welcome respectfully, in Attic Gk., and later
> (e.g.
>> Appian, Mithrid. 104 §489), used w. the acc. (so Mt 4:10 and Lk 4:8
>> [Dt
> 6:13 v.l.];
>> J 4:22a, b, 23b, 24a v.l.; Rv 9:20.—Gen 37:9; Ex 11:8; Judg 7:15 A;
>> Ep.
> Arist.
>> 137; 138; Philo; Jos., Ant. 2, 13; 7, 250); beside it the Koine uses
>> the
> dat.
>>
>>
>> gfsomsel




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