[B-Greek] EPI in Acts 1:21
Jeff Smelser
jeffsmelser at ntgreek.net
Wed Dec 10 14:15:21 EST 2003
> What I think I would still question, however, is the
> usage of EPI with the accusative hHMAS in the
> sense "among(st) us."
Yes, that is exactly what I'm questioning.
> Have you found other
> instances of EPI + accusative used with these
> combined verbs?
I don't have the fancy software that would let me do some of the searches I
see some of the rest of you doing, but no, I haven't found such instances.
In fact, in 1 Ki 29:6 (1 Sam. 29:6), where we have the nouns EXODOS and
EISODOS, we see what we might expect, the preposition META:
hH EXODOS SOU KAI hH EISODOS SOU MET' EMOU IN THi PAREMBOLHi
Or I might have expected EN hHMIN in Ac 1:21, or maybe ENTOS hHMWN, but I
have trouble understanding EF' hHMAS there.
BTW, I don't mean to belittle the "fancy software." If anyone would like to
contribute to the "TLG & Bibleworks 6 Fund for Jeff Smelser," please send
checks to... Oh, I'm guessing solicitations aren't allowed on the list.
Jeff Smelser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
To: "Jeff Smelser" <jeffsmelser at ntgreek.net>
Cc: "BG" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] EPI in Acts 1:21
> Jeff, I wouldn't quarrel one bit with your characterization of the
> combination "come in, go out" or in the Hebraic order "go out, come in"
(as
> "evening and morning" serve to indicate a complete day?) as idiomatic.
What
> I think I would still question, however, is the usage of EPI with the
> accusative hHMAS in the sense "among(st) us." Have you found other
> instances of EPI + accusative used with these combined verbs?
>
> At 12:59 PM -0500 12/10/03, Jeff Smelser wrote:
> >Acts 1:21
> >DEI OUN TWN SUNELQONTWN hHUMIN ANDRWN EN PANTI CRONWi hWi EISHLQEN KAI
> >EXHLQEN EF' hHMAS hO KURIOS IHSOUS...
> >
> >"It is necessary therefore, of the men who went about with us in all the
> >time which the Lord Jesus went in and went out among us..."
> >
> >I've used "among" just to get an English representation of the clause on
the
> >table, but would anyone care to categorize the use of EPI here, and
perhaps
> >cite some other passages where it is used similarly?
> >
> >Carl, I see that you addressed this question a few years ago (Jan 20
1998).
> >http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/test-archives/html4/1998-01/22925.html
> >
> >You wrote:
> >=====================
> >If we had only EISELQEIN, "upon us" would be pretty good English, I
think:
> >"The Lord Jesus came in upon us and went out ..." might work. It must be
> >EPI + acc. with a verb of motion, and EPI + accusative in classical Attic
> >often has the sense of "come upon," "accost," or even, in the case of a
> >bird of prey or a battleship, "swoop upon," "assail." I think this might
be
> >a pretty good combination for the impact of Jesus on the lives of this
> >community: entering into their lives suddenly and completely re-ordering
> >their entire existences as previously constituted into a new community,
and
> >perhaps, with EXELQEIN added into the equation, there's a suggestion to
of
> >Jesus' abrupt departures and returns to this group. So there's one
thought.
> >=====================
> >
> >However, it seems to me that coming and going is an idiomatic (Semitic)
> >expression for the normal activities of life, rooted in the pastoral
notion
> >of sheep coming and going from the sheepfold (Num 27:17). I think that
> >may be what you had in mind when you said, "If we had only EISELQEIN..."
> >EPI with that idiom seems incongruous to me. Hence I am wondering if
there
> >are any other thoughts regarding EPI in Acts 1:21.
> >
> >Listed below are OT occurrences of the idiom categorized by the various
> >means of translation in the LXX. In the Hebrew text, with one exception,
> >the order is always the same, "going out" and then "coming in." The
> >exception is Dt. 28:6 where the phrase seems less idiomatically
structured.
> >In the LXX, even though the Hebrew order is consistent, the Greek has
> >reversed the order in Psalm 121:8 and Dt. 31:2. In Luke, we twice see it,
> >both times with the reversed order, Ac 1:21 and 9:28. I only mention the
> >change in order because I suppose it has bearing on the question of
whether
> >this is the idiomatic expression I take it to be.
> >
> >Jeff Smelser
> >www.ntgreek.net
> >www.centrevillechurchofchrist.org
> >
> >
> >EXERCOMAI...EISERCOMAI
> >Num 27:17
> >Josh 14:11
> >
> >EXODOS...EISODOS
> >1Sa 29:6
> >2Sa 3:25
> >2Ki 19:27
> >Isa 37:28
> >Ps 121:8 (reversed order in LXX)
> >
> >EKPOREUOMAI...EISPOREUOMAI (cf. Ac. 9:28, with reversed order)
> >Dt. 28:6 (reversed order in Hebrew and LXX)
> >Dt. 31:2 (reversed order in LXX)
> >2Chron 15:5
> >Zech 8:10
> >
> >---
> >B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> >B-Greek mailing list
> >B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
> --
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
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