[B-Greek] 2nd Corinthians 5:10
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Dec 11 08:50:34 EST 2003
At 3:43 PM -0400 12/10/03, Granby at SAFe-mail.net wrote:
>Dear Mr. Conrad,
> I understand your reasoning but I feel like that reading is a little too
>strained.
>
>Is there no time significance to the fact that FANERWQHNAI is an aorist
>passive infinitive rather than a future passive infinitive?
I tried in my earlier response to demonstrate only that the aorist
infinitive FANERWQHNAI cannot refer to "an ongoing judgment which effects
us in the present in the body rather than a future grand judgment event."
Again the text: TOUS GAR PANTAS hHMAS FANERWQHNAI DEI EMPROSQEN TOU BHMATOS
TOU C RISTOU, hINA KOMISHTAI hEKASTOS *TA DIA TOU SWMATOS* PROS hA EPRAXEN
What we have is the impersonal verb DEI construed with subject-accusative
TOUS ... PANTAS hHMAS and infinitive verb FANERWQHNAI EMPROSQEN TOU BHMATOS
TOU CRISTOU. This implies: (a) something must assuredly happen, and (b)
that something is the appearance of all of us before the tribunal of
Christ. The aorist infinitive does not indicate WHEN that appearance is to
occur: it may be later today, or tomorrow, or in the near or distant
future, but it evidently has not already taken place at the "deictic point"
of Paul's writing, at HIS "now." The aorist infinitive must refer to the
whole event viewed either at its inception or at its completion; it cannot
refer to the event as durative or ongoing over an indefinite period of
time--that would require a PRESENT infinitive: FANEROUSQAI or (as I
suggested yesterday) FAINESQAI. The text must mean "We are all
destined/bound to make an appearance before the tribunal of Christ." If the
infinitive were PRESENT rather than AORIST, then it might be possible to
understand it to mean, "We are all obliged to be appearing before the
tribunal of Christ."
>(I'm trying to see if I can figure this out without making any assumption
>about the where/when of the judgement seat of Christ: it may not be
>possible).
It appears to me that you are trying to ascertain whether this passage can
be construed in terms of a realized rather than a futuristic eschatology.
That is a matter that we don't discuss on B-Greek. I will only say that I
don't see how the AORIST infinitive will allow for a notion of an ongoing
process of judgment.
>-------- Original Message --------
>From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
>To: Granby at SAFe-mail.net
>Cc: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 2nd Corinthians 5:10
>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:58:01 -0500
>
>> At 12:44 PM -0400 12/10/03, Granby at SAFe-mail.net wrote:
>> >TOUS GAR PANTAS hHMAS FANERWQHNAI DEI EMPROSQEN TOU BHMATOS TOU XRISTOU,
>> >hINA KOMISHTAI hEKASTOS *TA DIA TOU SWMATOS* PROS hA EPRAXEN
>> >
>> >I have two questions about his passage.
>> >
>> >TA DIA TOU SWMATOS
>> >
>> >How does DIA TOU SWMATOS fit in?
>> >I seems to me that it means the location where we will receive, making the
>> >whole thing something like 'we will recieve things throughout the body for
>> >what we have done'. This differs significantly from most translations
>> >which take DIA TOU SWMATOS as a descriptive phrase for where the things we
>> >did occurred rather than a description of the location of the receiving.
>> >
>> >Any insight on this would be appreciated, is there a correct way to read
>> >it one way or the other?
>>
>> I think rather that KOMISHTAI TA DIA TOU SWMATOS means "receive recompense
>> for deeds done in bodily existence." The word order may seem a bit
>> strained, as we might expect KOMISHTAI PROS TA hA EPRAXEN DIA TOU SWMATOS;
>> I do think that TA here is not simply the article but a demonstrative =
>> TAUTA.
>>
>> KOMIZOMAI like KTAOMAI and perhaps one or two other Greek verbs is peculiar
>> in meaning not only "acquire for oneself" what one is currently receiving
>> but often enough "acquire" what is the consequence of something which one
>> has done; and the object of these verbs may be the reward/punishment
>> received or it may be the original deed now being recompensed. BDAG s.v.
>> KOMIZW 3 has this passage
>> --------
>> KOMISHTAI TA DIA TOU SWMATOS PROS hA EPRAXEN receive a recompense for what
>> (each one) has done during life in the body 2 Cor 5:10 (cp. the judgment
>> scenes Pla., Phd. 113 and 114; s. also Diod. S. 8, 15)
>> -----------
>>
>> >My second question- Is there any thing in the greek in this passage that
>> >makes the sense of the whole statement a future event rather than an
>> >ongoing present occurrence - something along the lines of a present
>> >ongoing judgement which effects us in the present in the body, rather than
>> >a future grand judgement event ?
>>
>> Well, with the aorist infinitive FANERWQHNAI rather than the present
>> FAINESQAI one would hardly think of a present ongoing judgment; it looks
>> rather like a single appearance before the tribunal of Christ is envisioned.
>> --
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>---
>B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>B-Greek mailing list
>B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list