[B-Greek] Job 3:24
Albert Pietersma
albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Fri Dec 12 15:10:08 EST 2003
On Friday, December 12, 2003, at 02:43 PM, Ken Penner wrote:
> Hi Rick,
>
> As you probably know, PRO seems to be the most common way the
> translator of
> Job rendered LPNY (4 out of 7 occurrences of LPNY). The other
> translations
> of LPNY include TROPON, UPO, and ENANTI. Also, PNY is behind PRO in 5
> out of
> 9 occurrences of PRO (one is MPNY). The other 4 cases have LNGD, B+RM,
> BL),
> and BLYLW.
> So the translator seems to have considered PRO the standard equivalent
> for
> LPNY, and the question of interpretation could be shifted to wondering
> why
> LPNY was used in the Hebrew.
Sorry, Ken, I don't think it sound methodology to read the Greek
through the eyes of the Hebrew--unless the Greek text gives occasion
for it.
> That said, I'm not sure why "before" doesn't work in this context: "For
> groaning is present before my food."
That is not, however, what either the Hebrew or the Greek says. The
verb is not "is" but "come"
> The point of the passage seems to be
> that even the most relaxing times (meals) are troubled times. No need
> to
> look for rare meanings for PRO. Mind you, the NRSV has "like", with a
> footnote: "Heb: before".
As you suggested earlier, LPNY in MT is a bit of a problem---but PRO in
the Greek is note. Now if the translator of Job had stereotypically
paired LPNY and PRO one might wonder about the Greek. As you indicate,
that's not the case. He seems not to work half unthinkingly.
Al
>
> Ken Penner, M.C.S. (Biblical Languages, Greek Focus), M.A. (Hebrew
> Poetry)
> Ph.D. (cand.), McMaster University
> pennerkm at mcmaster.ca
> Flash! Pro: http://socserv.socsci.mcmaster.ca/westerholm/flash or
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flash_pro/join or
> http://sensoft.nav.to
>
>
>> While reading Job 3 this morning, PRO caught my attention in v.24:
>>
>> PRO GAR TWN SITWN MOU STENAGMOS hKEI,
>> DAKRUW DE EGW SUNECOMENOS FOBWi.
>>
>> At first, I tried to translate PRO in its usual sense
>> (before), but this
>> did not seem to make much sense. It seemed to have more of the
>> flavor of ANTI (the idea of substitution or exchange). This made
>> perfect sense to me. The problem is that I don't know that PRO
>> can be used as ANTI. Although neither LSJ nor BDAG discuss
>> LXX vocabulary, my research in these volumes did not indicate such
>> a use for PRO. The closest BDAG came to this possibility, IMO, is
>> def. number 3, marker of precedence in importance or rank (pg. 864),
>> but this still falls short of a definition that parallels ANTI.
>>
>> When I checked the Hebrew (the preposition lphn), neither BDB nor
>> Gesenius were of any help at all.
>>
>> Finally, when I checked NET, footnote (# 91) for Job 3:24 says
>> that the temporal meaning before makes very little sense here. The
>> meaning "in place of, for" fits better. So, at least I'm
>> not out on a
>> limb
>> totally by myself.
>>
>> Does PRO sometimes occur in the sense of exchange? Would you
>> suggest this rendering of Job 3:24? Or is there another/better way
>> to view the passage?
>
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>
—
Albert Pietersma
Professor of Septuagint and Hellenistic Greek
Near & Middle Eastern Civilizations
University of Toronto
Home: 21 Cross Street,
Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
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