[B-Greek] James 1:3

Mike Sangrey msangrey at BlueFeltHat.org
Mon Dec 29 22:51:22 EST 2003


On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 20:27, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:
> Mike Sangrey wrote:
> 
> > Hmmmmmmm...
> >
> > What we would have in a rather literal rendering into English, then,
> > would be something like:
> >         ...knowing that your faith-kind-of genuineness produces endurance.
> >
> 
> I'm not so sure that DOKIMION has anything to do with "genuineness" or that
> PISTEWS functions adjectivally here.

'Genuineness' is taken right out of Louw & Nida as the second gloss for
DOKIMION.  The concept behind DOKIMION is that some form of testing has
shown the article tested is in fact genuine in nature.  L&N list
'testing' first (27.45) but in the definition of DOKIMION in the
semantic domain of 'try to learn' they state, "to try to learn the
genuineness of something by examination and testing."  So, genuineness,
as an English construct, more accurately reflects the core sense of the
word.  The other semantic domain under which the term is listed is, in
fact, 'genuine, phony'.  Here (73.3) L&N state, "genuineness on the
basis of having been tested."  So, at least according to L&N, DOKIMION
has everything to do with 'genuineness'.

Also, at this point in my posting I wasn't expressing PISTEWS as an
adjective.  I used the phrase 'kind-of' to express the genitival
relationship.  I got this idea from Robertson and use it as an
analytical hook to understand the use of a genitive in a given text.

To keep the text before us:
> GINWSKONTES hOTI TO DOKIMION hUMWN THS PISTEWS KATEPGAZETAI hUPOMONHN

If we drop all words within the hOTI clause except for those in the
nominative, verb, and accusative slots, we simply have:
	TO DOKIMION KATEPGAZETAI hUPOMONHN

So, as James states it, it's genuineness (of some kind) that produces
endurance.  Stating it like that immediately produces the question,
genuineness of WHAT?  Well, the words which were dropped answer that
question.

> And surely, given the lead-in to  vs. 3 which speaks of the brethren meeting
> PEIRASMOIS, the construction in question has to be rendered  the "testing of
> your faithfulness" [...]

And this is the question under discussion.  I agree with you that
PEIRASMOIS brings a lexical element of 'testing' to the text and that
element syncs up (is syntagmatic) with DOKIMION.  So, testing is a
strong element in this text.  But that doesn't therefore require hUMWN
to be construed with PISTEWS.  I don't think we can make that immediate
connection.

It seems fairly natural to me to hear DOKIMION and then hear hUMWN with
the sense of delimiting DOKIMION and then to hear THS PISTEWS as a
further delimitation of DOKIMION hUMWN. The writer homes in from the
conceptually general to the more specific by using a sequence of
genitives.

> and what such **tested (and approved) faithfulness**, produces.

Yes, I agree.  The idea of 'approval' is certainly one of the semantic
components of DOKIMION.  I don't see how this in any substantive way
differs from the tentative conclusion I came to when I said:
>        ...knowing that your genuine faith produces endurance.

Something which is "tested and approved" is genuine, right?  Perhaps you
understand genuine sufficiently differently than I do, but not extremely
so, so that we're speaking past each other.

The interesting thing for me is as I think through how the Greek works
and then also think through how the English works, I find that being
"faithfully genuine" and "genuinely faithful" mean the same thing.

> In other words, your literal translation misses the point since that
> which produces "endurance" is not some kind of "genuineness" (let alone a
> "faith kind" -- what ever that is) but a faithfulness  that has proved itself.


> Yours,
> 
> Jeffrey
> --
> 
> Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)
> 
> 1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
> Chicago, IL 60626
> 
> jgibson000 at comcast.net
> 
> 
> ---
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-- 
Mike Sangrey
msangrey at BlueFeltHat.org
Landisburg, Pa.
                        "The first one last wins."
            "A net of highly cohesive details reveals the truth."




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