[B-Greek] John 13:4-5 present tenses
Dan & Rachel King
dan_rach at ntlworld.com
Thu Mar 13 11:00:52 EST 2003
Has anyone suggested that NT writers might sometimes use the present/aorist
in a way imitative of Biblical Hebrew narrative, i.e. using the tenses as
discourse markers - such that in a passage such as this the presents are
like converted imperfects (wayiqtols) and the aorists like disjucntive
perfects (wqatals) (only I would then have expected BALLW in the aorist and
ARCW in the present, resuming the main narrative)?
The problem with calling it a simple 'historic present' is that within a
single sentence, the writer is mixing it up and I can't see why the pouring
of water (present) should be viewed as any more vivid or continuous than
wrapping himself in a garment (aorist)...
I guess the question we're trying to get at is 'Is there any way of
explaining the choices that the writer is making which throws light on the
meaning? - or is it just whim'
Dan King
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Weiss" <eweiss at gte.net>
To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 2:47 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] John 13:4-5 present tenses
> Stanley Porter seems to believe that time isn't a factor with ANY of the
> tenses, not even the indicative, as I recall from my reading of his
> Idioms book. In John 13:4-5, is this part of the explanation for the
> tenses here -- i.e., the present tense is being used to convey a
> continuous, deliberative activity, in contrast to the aorist tense which
> is simply stating the action?
>
> EGEIRETAI EK TOU DEIPNOU KAI TIQHSIN TA hIMATIA, KAI LABWN LENTION
> DIEZWSEN hEAUTON. EITE BALLEI hUDWR EIS TON NIPTHRA KAI HRXATO NIPTEIN
> TOUS PODAS TWN MAQHTWN KAI EKMASSEIV TWi LENTIWi hWi HN DIEZWSMENOS.
>
> "He [Jesus] rises (present m/p) from the supper and removes (present)
> his outer-garments, and after-taking (aorist ptc.) a towel he girded
> (aorist) himself; then he pours (present) water into the washbasin and
> he began (aorist) to-wash (present inf.) the feet of the disciples and
> to-wipe (present inf.) [them] with-the towel with-which he-is-girded
> (perfect ptc.)"
>
> Assuming I didn't make any transcription or copying or translation
> errors, is John depicting or conveying the actions of Jesus raising
> himself.and removing his outer garments and pouring the water and
> washing and wiping the disciples' feet as being more "vivid" or as
> continuous, protracted activities by his use of the present tense
> (indicative and infinitive) -- in contrast to the aorist for "he took a
> towel and girded himself" (and "began")?
>
> Normal English would probably translate this as: "Jesus rose from the
> supper and removed his outer garment, and took a towel and wrapped it
> around his waist. He then poured water into the washbasin and began to
> wash his disciples' feet and dry them with the towel he had wrapped
> around himself." All the presents would be changed to past tenses. Do we
> lose something by translating it into English this way, and if so, what
> do we lose -- i.e., what nuances or things did John mean to convey by
> these present tenses? Did he mean that Jesus slowly rose from the table,
> and carefully/methodically removed his outer garments, and slowly poured
> water into the washbasin, and slowly/deliberately/carefully washed and
> dried his disciples' feet?
>
> --
> Eric S. Weiss
> http://home1.gte.net/vzn05pnm/index.htm
> S.D.G.
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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