[B-Greek] TOUS PEPISTEUKOTAS = EK TOU PATROS TOU DIABOLOU?

Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Sun Mar 16 05:51:25 EST 2003


> As I continues reading John 8, I came upon something else that
> puzzled me. In verse 31 Jesus started to speak to TOUS
> PEPISTEUKOTAS AUTWi IOUDAIOUS, to the Jews, having believed in
> him, or, to the believing Jews. Then in verse 44 he says that
> they belong to their father the Devil.
> How are these two statements to be reconciled?
> PEPISTEUKOTAS is a perfect participle is it not?
> Several of the English translations translate it as a pluperfect
> ie; -the Jews who had believed him- (but don't anymore). Is this
> translation in spite of the Greek tense or am I missing
> something? Maybe it is a pluperfect participle, I wouldn't know
> what one would look like. Thanks in advance.
> Bert de Haan

My guess is that you are puzzled by the misleading paragraph and section
breaks and unhelpful section titles in the UBS text. Ignoring these breaks
and titles and looking at the situation and using the context should clear
up the fog, I hope.

In the section beginning at 8:12 Jesus is addressing the whole crowd of
people present with a general comment: "I am the light of the world etc".
Immediately a subgroup within his audience, identified as the Pharisees,
speak up against Jesus in v. 13, and verses 14-19 describe the dispute
between Jesus and the Pharisees. V. 20 is a background narrator comment that
this took place in a public spot in the temple courts where many Jews
including Pharisees could be expected to be present.
V. 21-29 continues the dispute between Jesus and the Pharisees, now called
the "Jews" in v. 22 (It is generally accepted that John's use of "Jews"
refers to those Jewish religious leaders who did not believe in him and
constantly opposed him.)
v. 30 is a side comment by the narrator where he says that in spite of the
dispute between Jesus and the Pharisees, many of the common people believed
in Jesus as he spoke. v. 31 continues to say that it was to those ordinary
people that believed in him that Jesus spoke in 31b and 32.
In an idiomatic translation, I would set apart verses 30-32 as a separate
paragraph or even a separate section with a title like "Many in the crowd
believed in him". Unfortunately, no English translation that I am aware of,
has handled the section breaks properly at this point.
Now Jesus had said to the believing common Jews in the crowd: "The truth
will set you free!" Immediately, the Pharisees who were still standing
there, shot back at Jesus without realizing that Jesus was not speaking to
them: "We are the seed of Abraham and have never been enslaved!" From 33-59
we are again back in a serious dispute between Jesus and the unbelieving
Pharisees (or "Jews" as they are called in v. 48.)

Apart from the misleading paragraph breaks and section titles in the UBS
text and most English translations, the problem is caused by a lack of
familiarity with Greek discourse, especially introducing and tracking
participants. Jesus is the main character, and the main character is usually
in the Greek NT referred to by a pronoun. This is unlike English, where a
proper name is often needed. The other main participant in 12-59 is the
group of Pharisees. They are introduced in v. 12, but after that they are
referred to by a plural pronoun and occasionally by "Jews". The AUTOIS in v.
21 refers back to the Pharisees introduced in v. 13, and a pronoun is
enough, since these are the main participants apart from Jesus. But to help
the reader, they are identified as "Jews" in the next verse.
In v. 30 another minor group of participants is introduced by POLLOI, that
is, many in the crowd, not the few Pharisees. This group is then referenced
in the next verse by TOUS PEPISTEUKOTAS AUTWi IOUDAIOUS.
The tricky thing comes in v. 33 where the narrator takes us back to the main
participant group, the Pharisees, simply by a plural subject suffix included
in the verb. They are identified from the content of the speech.

In summary, it would be helpful to divide into three sections:
12-20 Jesus - the light of the world
21-29 The Pharisees understand nothing and refuse to believe
30-32 Many in the crowd believe in Jesus
33-59 The conflict with the Jewish leaders escalates

Iver Larsen



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