[B-Greek] RE: MT 28:19 MAQHTEUW
Matthew Baldwin
baldwin at apocryphum.com
Fri Nov 7 06:51:57 EST 2003
This response concerns the message from Dan Senor re: MT 28:19, MAQHTEUW,
and also the response to Dan from Carl Conrad.
Dan,
There is a lot of confusion evident in your question.
In English, there is one word "disciple" which can, in fact, serve as two
types of words syntactically, a noun, meaning, "a person who studies under
another person" or, a transitive verb, meaning, "turn someone into a
disciple." The latter use of the word as a verb is obsolete and archaic, so
people generally say "make a disciple" instead if they want to convey that
meaning.
The Greek word MAQHTHS (or mathetes -- but please learn our transcription
practices if you are going to use this list) means literally "a student," or
"one who learns," "a pupil." The Latin translation of the word is usually
"discipulus" from which we get our English word "disciple." Both words have
subtle connotations which may not be fully present in the Greek words
underlying them.
There is a danger in translation practices in which the nuances of a word in
one language get erroneously associated with the word in the original
language. Jesus has "disciples" but this word only means they are his
"pupils." The term MAQHTHS is a relational term which places Jesus in the
role of DIDASKALOS (teacher, or Rabbi) and his disciples in the role of
learners, or pupils (MAQHTAI).
There are many Greek cognates to MAQHTHS, words built from the same roots:
e.g. MAQHMA, "a lesson," or "knowledge;" MANQANW (inf. MAQEIN) "to
perceive" or "learn;" MAQHSIS, "getting knowledge," "learning," "education;"
and others. Our English words "polymath" and "mathematics" are related.
The Greek verb MAQHTEUW can be used so as to mean "be a pupil," or "study"
or "learn" (you add a noun in the dative to indicate who the teacher is), or
in a special transitive sense to mean "instruct," or by implication from the
roots, "turn into a pupil" (you add a noun in the accusative to indicate
who is instructed or made a pupil). In other words, either a teacher or a
pupil can be the subject of this verb MAQHTEUEIN.
The teacher MAQHTEUEI (instructs), the disciple MAQHTEUEI (learns).
There is NO WAY you can, as an English speaker, ever say something like:
>if Jesus wanted us to "make" ( verb) "DISCIPLES" (noun) He
> would have used two words in Greek.
This more or less ignores how the Greek language really any language
works.
Besides, Jesus spoke in Aramaic.
It seems to me that the instruction from the DIDASKALOS Jesus in MT 28:19 is
for us to go out MAQHTEUEIN.
It is possible that a better translation here is "instruct all nations."
This could also mean, however, "disciple all nations," and "make disciples
from all nations," and "pupilize all nations," and "cause all the nations to
learn" and so on. But if you "instruct" (MAQHTEUHS) someone, that person
becomes your disciple (MAQHTHS). So you could say you make that person
your disciple.
The translation "make disciples of all nations" has the virtue of exposing
the real sense of the underlying verb to the attentive reader. It adheres
fairly well to the translation principle "as free as possible, as literal as
necessary." It shows that the instruction which is in view leads to
discipleship.
As a Bapitst, I could say that I believe, theologically, that you are right
to point out that no one can "make" someone "a pupil" of Christ. As Roger
Williams said "forced worship stinks in God's nostrils."
But what is really going on here is that a theological notion of what it
means to be a disciple of Christ (your notion) has been read into an
ambiguous, imprecise English translation of a Greek which purports to report
the words of a man who spoke in Aramaic.
As a Biblical and Greek scholar I would add a further caution to the
layperson who, like yourself, is striving for more understanding: don't ever
base your theology on the meaning of individual words.
Best,
Matthew C. Baldwin
Assistant Professor of Religion and Philosophy
Mars Hill College
Cornwell 219
Mars Hill, NC
mbaldwin at mhc.edu
(828) 225-5968
Carl: If you're ever in town look me up! MCB
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:59:56 -0800
> From: dan senor <dsenor at mail.com>
> Subject: [B-Greek] mt 28:19 (disciple)
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <3FA9AB1C.50702 at mail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi this is my first question and I hope it is in the scope of B-greeks
> ministry. With out doubt I am not a student of Greek and could not find
> information any where to help me with my understanding of the verse.
>
> The verb in Matt 18:19 math?teusate:G3100{V_AAM_2P}is the only one of 4
> verb forms found in the NT that is a command (imperative). So --- it
> is the only place we are commanded (by Jesus) to go and to disciple the
> nations of the world and in verse 20 to teach them to observe all that
> Jesus had taught them.
>
> A question, if Jesus wanted us to "make" ( verb) "DISCIPLES" (noun) He
> would have used two words in Greek probably (poieite:G4160 - PAM - 2P)
> make) and the noun mathetai:G3101 (N-NPM) disciples, why did He pick the
> verb (it is the only place it appears in the Bible?)
>
> It is God's job to bring people into the Kingdom, we can only teach
> those who know Jesus and are willing to follow their teacher as the
> teacher follows Jesus. Jesus knew that, what does this verse really
> teach since we can not "make disciples"???
> None of the NT writers use either the verb or the noun form of
> "DISCIPLE", why??
>
> I am missing some thing and need help
>
> thanks
> Dan
>
>
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