[B-Greek] Correct notions about "deponent" verbs
Eric Weiss
eweiss at gte.net
Wed Nov 19 13:54:01 EST 2003
In this post:
http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/test-archives/html4/1997-01/16845.html
Carl Conrad discussed "deponent" verbs:
At 11:15 PM -0600 1/17/97, Donald W Price wrote:
>> In re to Henry's problem in distinguishing between the middle
>> and the passive, Winbery writes: "Both BAGD and LSJ give this
>> verb as deponent. In the present tense there is no way to
>> distinguish middle or passive."
>> This brings up another issue! I know that grammars tell us that
>> a "deponent verbs" are those that have middle/passive endings,
>> but are active in meaning. Right? However, the more I study this
>> issue, I find myself coming to the conclusion that
>> these "deponent" verbs never really lost that middle idea at
>> all. I'm referring to the "for oneself" idea. How about some
>> help on this matter?
> You "find yourself" --coming to the conclusion that ...?
> hHURHKAS!
>
> Is it conceivable that I have found a convert to a view that I
> have expressed here several times? I abhor the term "deponent"
> precisely because it implies a quirky notion that the English
> language (or whatever language the grammarian chances to speak as
> a native tongue) quite naturally and rightly uses an active verb
> to express, let's say, the notion of RECEIVING.
>
> "I receive a gift from my friend." Greek however says DWRON PARA
> TOU FILOU DECOMAI. "Aha!" we say, "Greek (in this instance)
> has "misplaced" the voice of the verb which God intended to be in
> the active voice. Let's mark that verb 'deponent' and thereby
> indicate that the Greeks' heads were not screwed on right when
> they came to using this verb."
>
> In fact, however, it appears that the proto-Indo-European parent
> language had fundamentally two voices, an active and a reflexive
> which could also be made to express a passive idea. English is
> exceedingly poor ("challenged"?) in genuine reflexives such
> as, "give one's self a break," while the European languages are
> contrastingly rich--Fr. SE LAVER, It. ARRIVEDERCI, Ger. ES
> VERSTEHT SICH (von selbst, freilich)--which last phrase nicely
> illusrates how the reflexive is used as a passive: obviously
> there isn't any "IT" which "understands itself" but rather "it is
> understood."
>
> So in fact what our grammar books have accustomed us to
> call "deponent" verbs are indeed native to Greek (and other IE
> languages); whenever an action is conceived is involving self-
> interest or self-projection, the verb tends to go into the middle
> voice (I'd prefer calling it the "reflexive" voice). Sometimes,
> and not infrequently in Greek, a verb that is active in the
> present becomes "deponent" or "reflexive" in the future:
> AKOUW/AKOUSOMAI; LAMBANW/LHPSOMAI; MANQANV/MAQHSOMAI; etc.
>
> I think this ultimately depends upon the genius--the native
> feeling latent within the speakers of each language regarding
> self-involvement in actions. English speakers, at least by
> contrast with French speakers and German speakers, don't seem
> very self-conscious about actions they perform, and I think
> that's why there are so few reflexive verbs in English,
> relatively speaking. But once we start reflecting upon things,
> we "find ourselves" wondering about differences between Greek and
> English, among other things.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University
> One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
> (314) 935-4018
> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc at oui.com
> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
IS THIS the most extensive discussion/explanation Carl has given in
the archives? I am reading the late Neva Miller's comments
on "deponent" verbs in the Fribergs' (and her) Analytical Lexicon,
and I wanted to be sure I have all of Carl's comments (or others'
similar comments), too, so I can more clearly and accurately
explain "deponent" verbs to my students and explain/suggest why
they should NOT be called "deponents" and/or why they shouldn't
think that Greeks couldn't tell an active voice from a
middle/passive one.
Eric S. Weiss
eweiss at gte.net
http://home1.gte.net/vzn05pnm/index.htm
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list