[B-Greek] 1John 3:19-20
Mike Marchywka
marchywka at hotmail.com
Tue Oct 14 19:33:04 EDT 2003
Thanks.
>synopsis of the meaning of KARDIA ( heart) in the NT which comes from the
>Theological Dictionary of the NT:
>
>a. in the heart dwell feelings and emotions, desires and passions
>b. the heart is the seat of understanding, the source of thought and
>reflection
>c. the heart is the seat of the will, the sources of resolves.
>d. thus the heart is the one centre in man to which God turns, in which
>the religious life is rooted, which determines moral conduct
>
Is this similar to the OT terms that are translated as "heart?"
( Maybe this is more a theology question but is God ever
described as having a "heart" as he is described concerning logos?)
After looking at the archive discussion for logos, I thought
I could fairly say that definition "b" would belong
to and be mutually exclusive with logos
( I'm using lower case since I won't pretend to transliterate...).
Perhaps I'm trying to draw a distincition that the author either could
not or did not attempt to make. Today, we do tend to
make a distinction between rational and emotional parts of
our being. I guess I'm trying to eventually determine if there is a case
for
a non-Machiavellian ( loving ) rational thought concept that is
entirely different from an emotional love.
>The question as to the meaning of condemn (KATAGINWSKW) :
>the term is used in this passage and in Gal. 2:11 and Romans 14:23. I would
>conclude that the term is used to meaning a fault detected and then
>condemned. The root word here is "to know" and is intensified by the
>addition of KATA. So, I would say that your take on the word is not
>possible.
Thanks, I found this on google:
http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRGRK26.htm
Does this capture the essence of the word?
In the NIV, the relevant passage appears as,
"19This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our
hearts at rest in his presence 20whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is
greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. "
I'm not sure how the use of KATAGINWSKW refutes my statement. That is, our
KARDIA
hinders us but God can overcome and the phrase " he knows everything"
could have been a reference to His logos nature depending on what may have
been lost in translating
"knows."
Thanks again.
( NOTE: NEW ADDRESS WILL BE mikemarchywka at netscape.net - I need more storage
or some kind of mail that allows message download for archiving. Any
recipient of my mail who has ideas is welcome to suggest them . Thanks. )
Mike Marchywka
1899 Balmoral Rd
Smyrna GA 30080
770-434-7510 (H)<- rarely answer
770-261-5084 (W)<- leave message
989-348-4796 (P)<- emergency only
>From: David Rollins <david87350 at earthlink.net>
>To: "Mike Marchywka" <marchywka at hotmail.com>, b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1John 3:19-20
>Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:58:41 -0700
>
>From: "Mike Marchywka" <marchywka at hotmail.com>
>Date: Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:00:20 AM US/Pacific
>To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: [B-Greek] 1John 3:19-20
>
>Hi,
>I am fairly new to the Bible and very new to Greek. Prior to reading the
>Bible
>I had almost no interest in literature or language- please allow me one or
>two newbie questions.
>
>I see that no one has tackled this question - so I will give my 2 cents.
>The most important issue in reading any text is the context. What is the
>overall progression of thought for the writer?
>Verse 16 - the love of God is understood most clearly by the example of
>Jesus laying down His life for us - and so we must lay down our lives for
>the brethren - how is that done ?
>Verse 17 - by sharing with our brother we show the love of God dwells also
>in us.
>Verse 18 - my brothers - don't do this in just words - but truly serve
>Verse 19 - We shall know by this ( serving our brother unreservedly) that
>we are of the truth. Some may try to wax philosophical on this point and
>there may be some room for that - but our assurance of being "of the truth"
>( which I take to be assurance that we are true disciples - something John
>is talking about throughout this epistle) is rather simple and pragmatic.
>Verse 20 - now if our heart does blame us ? God is greater than our heart
>and knows all things . I take this to mean that our serving our brother is
>foremost and our own heart can be deceived.
>
>My apologies to the list here - I have made a number of comments here w/o
>dealing with the Greek text - but for this question to be answered fully
>would take quite a long dissertation. I think Mike just wants some
>direction.
>
>My question is basically about all the words that appear in 1John 3:19,20.
>In general, can the word translated as "heart" be taken to mean "emotions"?
>And, can the original for "condemn" be taken to mean any negative emotion
>that prevents us from growing or coming towards God(fear,guilt, low
>self-worth) ?
>I'd like to twist/force the text to read something like " the logos aspect
>of God
>is greater than our emotions" but I have no idea how far off this could be
>based on the original words and context.
>How is "heart" different from the love aspect of God?
>
>Once you become more knowledgeable in the GNT you will be able to use
>Lexicons and dictionaries. But at your stage it is absolutely essential
>that you look up as many places where a term is used BEFORE you make any
>assumption as to its use or meaning. Because you may not have access at
>this time to any resources here is a good synopsis of the meaning of KARDIA
>( heart) in the NT which comes from the Theological Dictionary of the NT:
>
>a. in the heart dwell feelings and emotions, desires and passions
>b. the heart is the seat of understanding, the source of thought and
>reflection
>c. the heart is the seat of the will, the sources of resolves.
>d. thus the heart is the one centre in man to which God turns, in which
>the religious life is rooted, which determines moral conduct
>
>The question as to the meaning of condemn (KATAGINWSKW) :
>the term is used in this passage and in Gal. 2:11 and Romans 14:23. I would
>conclude that the term is used to meaning a fault detected and then
>condemned. The root word here is "to know" and is intensified by the
>addition of KATA. So, I would say that your take on the word is not
>possible.
>
>Does the word for "truth" have any particular relatioship to any words used
>to
>describe God- logos, love, spirit - besides the direct statement made in
>John 14:6
>( or is this even the same word that is translated as "truth"?).
>
>John in his gospel and in his epistles can be quite philosophical - but not
>in this passage in my view. The meaning is simple and straight-forward.
>
>( I'm still looking through on-line Greek reference suggestions I've seen
>posted
>to this list but it will take quite a while for me to be able to even
>pretend
>to read Greek...
>Yes, I have searched the archive somewhat- I found "chicken liver" is a bad
>translation of logos and I decided not to even try the other terms until I
>got
>some basic guidance...)
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>( NOTE: NEW ADDRESS WILL BE mikemarchywka at netscape.net - I need more
>storage or some kind of mail that allows message download for archiving.
>Any recipient of my mail who has ideas is welcome to suggest them . Thanks.
>)
>Mike Marchywka
>1899 Balmoral Rd
>Smyrna GA 30080
>770-434-7510 (H)<- rarely answer
>770-261-5084 (W)<- leave message
>989-348-4796 (P)<- emergency only
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Doug Hoxworth" <dhoxworth at charter.net>
>>To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>>Subject: [B-Greek] Greek 'n' Stuff
>>Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:50:42 -0400
>>
>>http://www.greeknstuff.com/
>>
>>has anyone seen this "Hey, Andrew! Teach Me Some Greek!" curriculum for
>>teaching children greek? is it good? could someone who has heard of it
>>fill me in on it? i'm thinking about using it for my kids in
>>homeschooling. thanks!
>>---
>>B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>>B-Greek mailing list
>>B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
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