[B-Greek] 1John 3:19-20
Mike Marchywka
marchywka at hotmail.com
Wed Oct 15 18:13:12 EDT 2003
I did find 1 John 3:19,20 at this link:
http://www.concordant.info/pdf/1jo3.pdf
Apparently, KATAGINWSKW and GINWSKW occur 3 times. The one describing
condemnation
is KATAGINWSKW HMWN H KARDIA. How does the "of the heart" part modify the
notion of knowledge in KATAGINWSKW? That is, is this the same kind of
knowledge
attributed to God a few words later ( without KATA) that happens to be
contained in the heart
or is it somehow different because it is contained in the heart? Could this
phrase imply
that KARDIA knowledge is inherently KATA knowledge? The phrase does look
conditional,
" if this knowledge ever is condemning " ( but again, I don't claim to have
any perspective
here).
What alternatives would the author have had if he had wished to
explicitly contrast a human emotion to God's reason?
Thanks.
( NOTE: NEW ADDRESS WILL BE mikemarchywka at netscape.net - I need more storage
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Mike Marchywka
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>From: David Rollins <david87350 at earthlink.net>
>To: "Mike Marchywka" <marchywka at hotmail.com>, b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1John 3:19-20
>Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:06:27 -0700
>
>Mike let me pull out some of the relevant questions:
>
>
>>synopsis of the meaning of KARDIA ( heart) in the NT which comes from the
>>Theological Dictionary of the NT:
>>
>>a. in the heart dwell feelings and emotions, desires and passions
>>b. the heart is the seat of understanding, the source of thought and
>>reflection
>>c. the heart is the seat of the will, the sources of resolves.
>>d. thus the heart is the one centre in man to which God turns, in which
>>the religious life is rooted, which determines moral conduct
>>
>
>Is this similar to the OT terms that are translated as "heart?"
>
>
> ------Yes the usage is very similar------
>
>( Maybe this is more a theology question but is God ever
>described as having a "heart" as he is described concerning logos?)
>
>
>--------Not that I know of - the only place that would hint of such a thing
>that I know of is Matt 11:29.--------
>
>After looking at the archive discussion for logos, I thought
>I could fairly say that definition "b" would belong
>to and be mutually exclusive with logos
>( I'm using lower case since I won't pretend to transliterate...).
>Perhaps I'm trying to draw a distincition that the author either could
>not or did not attempt to make. Today, we do tend to
>make a distinction between rational and emotional parts of
>our being. I guess I'm trying to eventually determine if there is a case
>for
>a non-Machiavellian ( loving ) rational thought concept that is
>entirely different from an emotional love.
>
>
>--------To answer a series of questions like these would require much more
>information about what exactly you are asking.--------
>
> would belong
>to and be mutually exclusive with logos
>
>
>--------Don't understand what the question is here???--------
>
> I guess I'm trying to eventually determine if there is a case for
>a non-Machiavellian ( loving ) rational thought concept that is
>entirely different from an emotional love.
>
>
>---------To answer this one would require a lot more info on what you are
>thinking. I think you are trying to answer questions that are not answered
>in the text - and would be more of a theological quest for answers in the
>whole GNT.---------
>
>Thanks, I found this on google:
>http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRGRK26.htm
>
>Does this capture the essence of the word?
>
>--------Yes - it does !-------
>
>In the NIV, the relevant passage appears as,
>"19This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our
>hearts at rest in his presence 20whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is
>greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. "
>
>I'm not sure how the use of KATAGINWSKW refutes my statement. That is, our
>KARDIA
>hinders us but God can overcome and the phrase " he knows everything"
>could have been a reference to His logos nature depending on what may have
>been lost in translating
>"knows."
>
>>And, can the original for "condemn" be taken to mean any negative emotion
>>that prevents us from growing or coming towards God(fear,guilt, low
>>self-worth) ?
>>I'd like to twist/force the text to read something like " the logos aspect
>>of God
>>is greater than our emotions" but I have no idea how far off this could be
>>based on the original words and context.
>
>------ this part of your comments is what I think is not supported by the
>text ------
>
>I hope this helps to clarify some things for you !
>
>David Rollins.
>
>
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