John 20:31 was Re: [B-Greek] Phil 2:11

Doug Hoxworth dhoxworth at charter.net
Thu Oct 16 10:51:49 EDT 2003


><Stephen>
>I did not expect to find that the people most strenuously contesting this interpretation would have little or no apparent appreciation of the existence or significance of this rule...

<doug>
on my part, it is not that i have not admitted or 
appreciated this *general* rule (if you recall i 
specifically said that "i'm not denying this *general* 
rule" and that it is not as if "your reading is impossible 
or grammatically incorrect") but as i've tried to state 
before is that my desire was to point out that if this 
(articles) is all that there is, then there *may* be more 
to it (e.g., context, fronting, names, titles, etc.). in 
other words, this view may just be incomplete or missing 
something.

><Stephen>
>At this point, I have become rather non-plussed about how to proceed, and I fear that future participation in this discussion is going to be more frustrating than productive...

<doug>
i don't mean to sound frustrated in return, but these are 
my observations: we all recognize the *general* rule and 
that your reading is not incorrect *grammatically*. you on 
the other hand, seem unwilling to admit the possibilty 
that your view could be wrong/incomplete, seem to indicate 
by some of your comments that this "rule" is inviolable, 
and seem unwilling to explain why it is that *all* English 
translations opt for the rendering "that Jesus is the 
Christ" rather than "that the Christ is Jesus." you seem 
to be focusing only on the grammar and have not even 
discussed such things as the pragmatics and other sublties 
of the text. all we have heard so far is a grammatical 
rule (which is a general rule and you've admitted not 
inviolable) and a confident assertion that yours is the 
correct reading (implying that ALL English translations 
are incorrect). so perhaps you might also understand our 
(or at least, my) frustration as well. if you would seem 
willing to admit other possibilities of reading the text 
other than yours based on a "rule" then perhaps dialogue 
would be more productive. just a question, what would make 
this thread more productive in your mind?



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