[B-Greek] Rev 19:2, EK XEIROS
Mark Lama
markosl80 at yahoo.com
Wed Oct 29 15:41:18 EST 2003
Hello, Iver,
Revelation 19:2b:
hOTI EKRINE THN PORNHN THN MEGALHN, hHTIS EFQEIRE THN GHN EN THi PORNEIAi AUTHS, KAI EXEDIKHSE TO hAIMA TWN DOULWN AUTOU EK THS CEIROS AUTHS.
My understanding of EK CEIROS AUTHS here would be that is is a Hebraistic idea: God requires the blood of the slain from the hands of the murderers. I need to go home and check the OT, but I think that is what explains the presence of CEIROS. On the other hand, if EK THS CEIROS was expressive of agent, I would expect something like TO EKKECUMENON THi CEIRI AUTHS to modify TO hAIMA.
CARIS KAI EIRHNH,
Mark Lama
Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:
> I note that many English translations (e.g., KJV, RSV, NASB, ESV, NEB, NIV
> etc.) take EK XEIROS AUTHS as "on her" (he [God] has avenged the blood of
> his servants on her [the great harlot]). But this seems odd to me. All the
> other instances of this construction that I've found appear to
> refer to the
> *subject* of the action; i.e., it tells who performed an action. But the
> common Eng. transl. "on her" would make the EK XEIROS AUTHS the
> *object* of
> another's action. As subject, it would refer to God avenging the blood of
> his servants *which was shed by the action of the harlot.* Am I missing
> something here? Are there parallels to this phrase used as most English
> translations take it? I hesitate to disagree with such a wide range of
> traditional translation...
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Rodney J. Decker, Th.D., Assoc. Professor/NT
NET Bible: "avenged the blood of his servants poured out by her own hands!"
TEV: "God has punished her because she killed his servants."
CEV: "But God has judged her and made her pay the price for murdering his
servants."
There is a similar verse in Rev 6:10, and it may be worth comparing them:
6:10 hEWS POTE...OU KRINEIS KAI EKDIKEIS TO hAIMA hHMWN EK TWN KATOIKOUNTWN
EPI THS GHS
19:2 KAI EXEDIKHSEN TO hAIMA TWN DOULWN AUTOU EK CEIROS AUTHS
I would agree that normal Greek would lead one to expect that the EK phrase
refers to those who are responsible for the death of the servants of God.
However, since it is only found in Revelation, it is also possible that this
is not normal Greek, but a literal rendering of an underlying Hebrew
construction.
BAGD says under EKDIKEW: "w. the pers. on whom vengeance is taken, or who is
punished, designated by EK (Num 31:2; 1 Km 24:13; Vis. Pauli 40) Rv 6:10,
... (4 Km 9:7) 19:2."
In Num 31:2 the text talks about exacting vengeance on/towards the
Midianites. The LXX has EK as a literal rendering of the Hebrew "min". Now,
I am not that familiar with Hebrew, but I think "min" is broader than EK. It
can even refer to a direction towards something or someone.
In the final analysis, I don't think there is a significant difference in
meaning between the various English translations, because it is those who
are responsible for the death of God's servants who will also be the target
of the punishment. Sometimes, a translation can make explicit an object
which is implicit in the text, and even make implicit an agent who is
explicit in the text.
Having said that, I would prefer to take 19:2 as referring to the one who
did the murders because of the CEIROS. In the Danish revision of the Living
Bible that I have worked on, we said "He punished her who killed his
servants." This is fairly similar to the TEV.
For 6:10 I don't know. It could go both ways.
Iver Larsen
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