[B-Greek] Caution:EDOXASEN in Romans 8:30

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Sep 4 12:50:36 EDT 2003


In view of the fact that we don't discuss doctrinal implications of Greek
texts, please keep any comments regarding this question restricted to
matters directly related to the meaning of EDOXASEN in Romans 8:30; if one
wishes to respond in terms of doctrine, please respond directly Higashi
OFF-LIST. Thanks.

At 1:49 PM +0900 9/4/03, HigashiNobuo wrote:
>Subject:EDOXASEN in Romans 8:30
>(concerned with Mr.Glen L. Naftaniel's comment at Thu. Mar. 8.15, 2001)
>
>Mr.Glen L. Naftaniel wants to know the true meaning concerning the subject
>above. But I think, no answer has been given. He says;
>
>>... I am trying to correctly understand the word Glorified (EDOXASEN),
>particularly as it applies to Romans 8:30. The verb is indicative, aorist,
>active, third person, singular. (AnalyticalGreek N.T.--Friberg.) I guess
>they interpret it as past tense because it is aorist. I'm not sure of the
>implications of it being indicative. I
>know that it means that the action is certain. Does that mean that it is
>presently taking place?  (I don't think so but I'm not sure)
>I have a friend who interprets glorified in Romans 8:30 as referring to
>both (1)our present exaltation, i.e. our becoming sons of God. And (2)
>our final glorification i.e. heaven. Is that grammatically sound? It
>doesn't seem so to me for two reasons:
>1) I think that when people speak they don't have two ideas in their
>mind at the same time. .....
>2) It doesn't seem that if glorification was past tense that it could be
>BOTH past and present at the same time. Is that correct?
>Any help that could be offered would be of great help. Thanks, Glen--
>-----------------------
>In Rom. 8:30, God called(EKALESEN) us whom He predestinated. And then He
>justified(EDIKAIWSEN), and more He glorified(EDOXASEN) us.
>
>The verbs are all of aorist tense. We understand the aorist tense of
>"called"(EKALESEN) and "justified"(EDIKAIWSEN) no problem because we were
>already called and justified. But how about the "glorified"EDOXASEN? We are
>not glorified yet but Paul says "glorified"(EDOXASEN) in aorist(past) tense.
>What does it mean?
>
>Not only Glen but also we ,may be, all the believers have been troubled and
>complicated and even many interpreters seem troubled by the aorist tense for
>"glorified" EDOXASEN.
>
>Glen says referring to A.T. Robertson
>A.T. Robertson (Word Pictures) remarked--Glorified (EDOXASEN). All first
>aorist active indicatives of common verbs (KALEO, DIKAIOO, DOXAZO). But
>the glorification is stated as already consummated (constative aorists,
>all of them), though still in the future in the fullest sense. "The step
>implied in EDOXASEN is both complete and certain in the Divine counsels"
>
>Some other ones say also about the aorist.....
>
>"It means the guarantee of the future glorification because the
>glorification in the future is too sure"(K.Utimura, R.Oyama).
>
>"An anticipation, to take glorification in advance"(E.Kaesemann, Lietzmann
>etc.translated by me from Jap.edition ).
>
>"Though not complete in its historical working out, the step implied in
>EDOXASEN is both complete and certain in the Divine counsels. To God there
>is neither 'before nor after'. "(Sanday and Headlam, Romans).
>
>"The aorist here used may express the idea of frequency. Whom He calls, He
>is wont to justify; and whom He is wont to justify, is he accustomed to
>glorify. So that the meaning is the same as though the present tense had
>been used, 'Whom he calls he justifies,' &c.; ... Or, as this use of aorist
>is doubtful, or at least unusual, that tense is employed, because Paul is
>speaking of that God, who sees the end from the beginning, and in whose
>decree and the purpose all future events are comprehended and fixed; so that
>predestinating us, he at the same time, in effect, called, justified, and
>glorified us, as all these were included in his purpose..." (C.Hodge.
>Romans).
>
>As you know from these small quotations, the commentators seem troubled
>about this aorist tense. Their understanding may be summarized as
>A.T.Robertson says: "The step implied in EDOXASEN is both complete and
>certain in the Divine counsels"
>
>Now, please look another verses of Ephesians 2:5-6
>
>[NKJV] Ephesians
>2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive
>together(SUNEZWOPOIHSEN) with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
>2:6 and raised us up together(SUNHGEIREN), and made us sit
>together(SUNEKAQISEN) in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
>
>This is the same case as in Rom.8:30.
>SUNEZWOPOIHSEN, SUNHGEIREN and SUNEKAQISEN
>These are all of aorist tense.
>
>EDOXASEN in Rom.8:30 will be considered the glorification at the same time
>when God made us alive together with Christ and raised us up together and
>made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. This EDOXASEN
>is not for the future matter as the interpreters consider.
>Other aorist tense of the verbs in Rom.8:30, EKALESEN, EDIKAIWSEN too are
>these at the time of His resurrection.
>
>Mixing these verses, we can say that after our crucifixion together with
>Christ(Rom.6:6, Gal.2:20) , God called(EKALESEN)(Rom.8:30) us,
>justified(EDIKAIWSEN)(Rom.8:30) us, made us alive(SUNEZWOPOIHSEN)(Eph.2:5)
>together with Christ, and raised us up together(SUNHGEIREN)(Eph.2:5), and He
>glorified(EDOXASEN)(Rom.8:30) us (,may be, together with Him) and made us
>sit together(SUNEKAQISEN)(Eph.2:5) in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
>
>EKALESEN, EDIKAIWSEN, are not the matters occurred when we believed into
>Him, nor EDOXASEN is the matter in the future. But all are the matters in
>His resurrection and ascension two thousand years ago.
>So, the aorist tense is applied to these verbs. The only one event occurred
>in the past.
>
>According to the facts, we were called, justified, made alive(given life)
>when we believed into Him and in the future we will be glorified and be made
>sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
>
>And I must say that another "we" actually existed together with Christ Jesus
>two thousand years ago, because Paul uses the prefix "SUN" with verbs
>SUNEZWOPOIHSEN, SUNHGEIREN and SUNEKAQISEN. Otherwise, he is a liar. This
>another "we", I call the "objective we". The existence of this corporate
>being the "objective we" is proved biblically.
>
>Thanks
>
>Higashi Nobuo(fam.n., fst.n.)
>Fukuoka city Japan
>
>
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-- 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/



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