[B-Greek] Gospel of John 6:24

Steve Lovullo SLovullo at etcconnect.com
Thu Sep 25 16:14:27 EDT 2003


Actually, this is not a case of the hisorical present at all. The present tense is here used in "indirect speech" in an object or content clause introduced by hOTI as the direct object of EIDEN, a verb of perception. While in English we would say, "The crown saw that Jesus **was** not there, in Greek the tense of the original discourse or thought is retained in the indirect discourse, just as it is in direct discourse.

Steve Lo Vullo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Hare [mailto:jason at hareplay.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 3:06 PM
> To: B-Greek
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Gospel of John 6:24
> 
> 
> > hOTE OUN EIDEN hO OCLOS hOTI IHSOUS OUK ESTIN EKEI
> > OUDE hOI MAQHTAI AUTOU, ENEBHSAN AUTOI EIS TA PLOIARIA
> > KAI HLQON EIS KAFARNAOUM ZHTOUNTES TON IHSOUN
> >
> > Why the present tense of ESTIN?
> 
> Indeed, as a continuative note (and sorry for the repeated use of
> Wallace)....
> 
> These text does indeed seem to me to carry a historical 
> flavor with it.
> 
> /So when the crowd saw that Jesus *was* not there, nor his 
> disciples, they
> embarked on boats and came to Capernaum seeking Jesus./
> 
> It indeed seems to force us to say "was" in place of "is" (the present
> tense). Regarding John 5.2, Wallace said the following (p. 531):
> 
> "The text reads: ESTIN DE EN TOIS hIEROSOLUMOIS... KOLUMBHQRA 
> ('Now there
> /is/ in Jerusalem... a pool'). Since the equative verb is 
> *nowhere else*
> clearly used a historical present, the present tense should 
> be taken as
> indicating present time from the viewpoint of the speaker. 
> The implication
> of this seems to be that this Gospel was written before the 
> destruction of
> Jerusalem in 70 CE. Although many object to a pre-70 date for 
> John's Gospel,
> they must, in support of their view, reckon with this text."
> 
> Does the present verse (6.24) get us beyond this quibble? Can 
> ESTIN be used
> with a historical sense?
> 
> Regards,
> Jason
> 
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