[B-Greek] Historical use of LOGOS
Raymond Allan Johnson
rjohns80 at hotmail.com
Mon Sep 29 12:40:58 EDT 2003
TDNT IS extensive ...
Alfred Edersheim also has some interesting thoughts in chapter four of "The
Life and Times ..."
http://philologos.org/__eb-lat/book104.htm
Keep the Faith
RAY
http://erajemi.com/
http://www.revdrjohnson.com/
http://acolw.org/pastor.htm
http://xjw-central.com/
http://erajemi.com
http://erajemi.com
"I believe it is important today to position the church as a family, rather
than as an institution. Since the 1960s Americans have become increasingly
anti-institutional. They use the phrase "organized religion" with contempt.
On the other hand, people are longing for a sense of family and community."
- Rick Warren
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Today's Topics:
1. Historical use of LOGOS (Jonathan Bernier)
2. Re: Historical use of LOGOS (Maurice A. O'Sullivan)
3. RE: Mat. 11:25 -- EXOMOLOGEOMAI with a hOTI clause (Iver)
4. BBG and Case Endings (Barry W. Hickey)
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:46:47 -0400
From: Jonathan Bernier <jbernier at uwo.ca>
Subject: [B-Greek] Historical use of LOGOS
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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Dear B-Greekers,
I am very interested in the use of LOGOS in John and am interested in
looking
at the various ways that the term is used in ancient philosophical and
theological literature. In particular I'm interested in looking at the
different ideas that John may have been drawing upon when he choose that
word. Does anyone know of good places to start looking for such background
information? Thanks.
Jonathan Bernier
Honours Anthropology Undergraduate, University of Western Ontario
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:24:10 +0100
From: "Maurice A. O'Sullivan" <mauros at iol.ie>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Historical use of LOGOS
To: Jonathan Bernier <jbernier at uwo.ca>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20030928231122.0204c030 at pop.iol.ie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 21:46 28/09/2003, Jonathan Bernier wrote:
>Does anyone know of good places to start looking for such background
>information? Thanks
Jonathan:
You _do_ like going for the simple, straightforward questions, don't you?
<vbg>
With a university address, I'm assuming you have access to the ten volume
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament.
The extensive entry on LOGOS in vol. 4 has no fewer than 10 pages ( 80-90 )
on the topic: The Development of the LOGOS Concept in the Greek World
Likewise, you should be able to access the 6 volume Anchor Bible
Dictionary, with its subdivisions on LOGOS arranged thus:
A. Logos in Greek Philosophy
B. Logos in the Septuagint
C. Logos in Hellenistic Jewish Speculation
D. Logos in the New Testament in General
E. Logos in Johannine Literature
1. Logos in the Prologue of the Gospel of John
2. Logos in the First Epistle of John
F. Logos in Second-Century Christian Literature
Go dig! ( after all, a famous English academic once described doing a
thesis as a higher form of navvying )
Regards,
Maurice
Maurice A. O'Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]
mauros at iol.ie
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:11:44 +0300
From: "Iver" <iver_larsen at sil.org>
Subject: RE: [B-Greek] Mat. 11:25 -- EXOMOLOGEOMAI with a hOTI clause
To: "Mike Sangrey" <msangrey at BlueFeltHat.org>, "Biblical Greek"
<b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBIMKCNLGACONLDPPNMEOCDLAA.iver_larsen at sil.org>
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Hi, Mike,
No one has responded on list, so let me make a brief comment.
You said:
> I'm particularly interested in the meaning of EXOMOLOGEOMAI and its
> functional relationship with the hOTI clause.
>
> Mat. 11:25:
> EN EKEINWi TWi KAIRWi APOKRIQEIS hO IHSOUS EIPEN, EXOMOLOGOUMAI
> SOI, PATER, KURIE TOU OURANOU KAI THS GHS, hOTI EKRUYAS TAUTA
> APO SOFWN KAI SUNETWN KAI APEKALUYAS AUTA NHPIOIS:
>
> The NET Bible has:
> At that time Jesus said, "I PRAISE you, Father, Lord of heaven
> and earth, BECAUSE you have hidden these things from the wise
> and intelligent, and revealed them to little children. (emphasis
> mine to highlight what I'm interested in).
>
> The NASB also has `praise', as does the NIV.
When EXOMOLOGEOMAI is used with a dative beneficiary as here, the standard
meaning is praise and thanksgiving. So, it could be translated either "I
praise you" or "I thank you". Because of that, hOTI probably means
"because", but it doesn't make much difference whether one says "I thank
you, Father, that you have done so and so" or "I thank you, Father, because
you have done so and so". My preference would be "because", but I would not
rule out the other option.
>
> ISTM that what Jesus is doing here is making a statement that publicly
> voices agreement with the statement that the God of the universe hides
> things from people who think they've got smarts and that God reveals
> these things to little children. In other words, Jesus is publicly
> identifying himself, and appealing to the crowd to think of him in this
> way, as just like a little child.
>
> Or, to put the question a little more directly: doesn't Jesus' use of
> EXOMOLOGEOMAI carry the sense of a public statement of agreement and
> then the hOTI clause indicate the content with which he agrees?
I wouldn't think so, but you can still get the sense of what you are
suggesting from the passage. It seems to be a public statement (in the form
of a prayer) of the need to be like children in the sense that one can
receive revelation from God. The wise and intelligent tend to be
self-reliant, and Jesus set an excellent example of a person who was NOT
self-reliant, but only did what the Father had revealed to him to do.
Iver Larsen
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:46:49 -0400
From: "Barry W. Hickey" <bhickey at sun-spot.com>
Subject: [B-Greek] BBG and Case Endings
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001801c38690$2229c040$0300000a at Highlandsnt>
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In BBG, Bill Mounce states that the `real` case ending for second
declension, masculine, plural, accusative is NS. However, he goes on to
state that the nu drops out because of the following sigma. If nu and sigma
are incompatible how is it that the `real` case ending could ever be NS?
Sincerely,
Barry W. Hickey
------------------------------
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End of B-Greek Digest, Vol 9, Issue 28
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