[B-Greek]Deponency (was; 2nd aorsit of ERCHOMAI FOLLOW UP)
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Apr 1 19:30:24 EST 2004
At 6:33 PM -0500 4/1/04, <bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca> wrote:
> "Stephen C. Carlson" wrote:
>
>> Forget about deponents--they only confuse the issue.
>> If a verb has more than root, all bets are off, and
>> you just have to memorize it. But even for verbs with
>> only one root, Greek verbs can be active in one tense
>> but middle in another (BAINW vs. BHSOMAI), as Carl
>> pointed out already. Deponency is neither a necessary
>> nor sufficient explanation for what's going on with
>> ERCOMAI.
>>
>> Coming from Latin, which does have a real deponent
>> system, I was naturally very inclined to hold on to
>> the concept of deponency in Greek. But it hurt more
>> than helped in Greek. The Greeks didn't have a word
>> for it, and we probably shouldn't either. Rather,
>> the more appropriate approach is to understand the
>> interest or involvement of the subject in the action
>> when we see a Greek middle. Based on suggestions
>> made here earlier, and Carl has made them, a rough
>> guide to understanding Greek middles with an English
>> gloss is to use some form of the verb "get." Take
>> ERCOMAI for example. It is as middle in the present
>> tense as the English idiom "get oneself somewhere."
>
>
> For the sake of understanding why the term "deponent" is not legitimate
>for Greek but is for Latin, can someone explain what a deponent verb is in
>Latin?
>(I think that the Dutch verb "deponeren" (which means deposit or put down)
>comes from the same Latin word where we get 'deponent', so I'm guessing
>that it involves putting down.)
Bert, perhaps my earlier message of today "Re: [B-Greek] Deponents (was 2nd
aorsit ... FOLLOW UP)" (Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:35:07 -0500) may clarify the
matter somewhat for you. Suffice it to say that the traditional definition
of "deponent" is pretty much the same for Latin as it has been
traditionally in Greek grammars, something to the effect of "a verb passive
in form but active in meaning." What I've suggested in that earlier post
today is that I really think the term is no more appropriate for Latin
verbs than it is for Greek verbs; perhaps it does less harm to students of
Latin because it doesn't range over as much contradictory morphological
phenomena as do the Greek so-called "deponents" or "deponent futures" or
the like.
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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