[B-Greek] Re: Greek Pronunciation (To Curtis)

Curtis Hinson curtis at curtishinson.com
Sun Apr 11 21:50:39 EDT 2004


Γεια σου Bruno,

Well, no, I draw a distinction between modern Greek/Byzantine and Erasmian.  Erasmian is not an accent, it is just a system for other people to know what letter you have in mind with the local accent laid over it.  Modern Greek is a natural language that you can learn and continually improve your accent/pronunciation.  Sure you could speak with a modern Greek accent overlayed with a German or Russian accent, that just means you're doing it badly.  There are living native speakers you can spend time with (who are very proud of their language and culture by the way) that are usually quite happy to help you improve your speech.

It is clearly true that Modern Greek is pronounced differently than Koine or other ancient dialects.  I am of course familiar with the evidence and some of the changes that apparently have taken place, although I tend to cite people rather than sheep when discussing linguistics.  *grins*  Did you know in Japanese, the sound dogs make is "wan wan"?  Who is to say sheep don't go "vi vi"?  

I suppose my point is not that the Modern Greek accent is just like Koine Greek, but that it's a natural, historical continuation of Greek in our modern day and not a made-up system.  What evolutions have taken place are natural linguistic evolutions that happen in the matrices of a culture and history, and not on some guy's notepad.  If I wanted an artifice, I would speak Klingon or Esperanto.  To me at least, as a lover of the language for its own sake, because my culture derives so much from it, and because my tradition's holy text is written partly in it, I want to speak, read, and write Greek in a way that connects with my heart and mind more naturally.  

Clearly I'm not quite where I want to be with that, there are many on this forum far better qualified to talk about evidences for this than I, I suppose for me it's a matter of the heart.  This is why I was reluctant to bring up the matter on B-Greek, but now that we're on the subject, I thought I would take the opportunity to clarify my thought.

I dated a Greek woman and I took Inquirer's training in the Greek Orthodox church, which is where I improved my modern Greek pronunciation and gained a little basic conversational ability in demotiki.  I am trying to EXPERIENCE Greek, not just read it like it's dead and gone.

Bless the Name
Curtis Hinson
Abilene Christian University



-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Bruno
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 3:41 PM
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [B-Greek] Re: Greek Pronunciation (To Curtis)


> Subject: [B-Greek] Re: Greek Pronunciation (To Curtis)

> Erasmian is an artificial pronunciation, basically it's just Greek
> pronounced badly in whatever the local accent is, so it actually 
> sounds different in the USA than in the UK and in Mexico (I have heard 
> for myself.)
>
> I would suggest you study and use the Modern Greek pronunciation.


No, I personally would not do that.
It is somewhat sad that everyone keeps his own native accent. Or that some pronounce omicron like alpha, chi like kappa, or upsilon like omicron-upsilon.

But admit: many students will also keep their native accent if they use the Modern Greek pronunciation for ancient Greek. Many people just keep their native accent even when they have lived in a foreign country for decades.

In ancient Greek, ÈTA was not ITA. BÈTA was not VITA.
The B-sound did not have to be written as MP.
Upsilon, Èta, Iota were different sounds. Now they are all pronounced as the English "ee".

Or what's the use of learning about a "spiritus asper" when you don't aspirate it anyway?

Even some native Greeks describe how ancient Greek was pronounced different than modern
Greek:
http://www.cogsci.indiana.edu/farg/harry/lan/grkphon.htm

His additional details on Bèta: http://www.cogsci.indiana.edu/farg/harry/lan/beta.htm
Ancient Greek poets wrote about sheep that said: "BH BH" (bèta èta...) That would actually be read as vee vee in Modern Greek. (VI VI)

Another pronunciation chart (by a Greek author) that makes clear the pronunciation differences between standard modern Greek (Demotic) and "Erasmic" pronunciation: http://users.otenet.gr/~bm-celusy/chart1.html


> It is the
> only pronunciation with a historical connection with ancient Greek,
> and is virtually identical to the Byzantine pronunciation. I have the 
> Greek New Testament in MP3 read by a native Greek speaker,

But anyway, I have heard a fragment of that...
I would even prefer that above the US English Koine NT. (Because a good alternative is missing.)

Bruno

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