[B-Greek] KATA PROQESIN
Arie Dirkzwager
dirkzwager at pandora.be
Sat Aug 14 17:51:04 EDT 2004
I think it is important to note that in "TOIS KATA PROQESIN KLHTOIS OUSIN"
the words KATA PROQESIN are an addition to TOIS KLHTOIS OUSIN: that the
believers were *called*, is KATA PROQESIN. That cannot be the PROQESIS of
the believer but must be that of God.
That for the formal (Greek) part of the question.
Concerning the message we have in one sentence both sides of the coin: God
who was calling and man that is loving. So you have in Jude: 1 that the
believer is TETHRHMENOS by God whereas the believer has to THREIN himself in
Jude: 20.
And (if it is allowed to go further) we should keep in mind that the
PROQESIS of God is linked to His Name (i.e. His character) in Ex 33: 19. The
consequence is that we have to be aware that some aspects of the PROQESIS
are beyond our understanding.
Arie
Dr. A. Dirkzwager
Hoeselt, Belgium
e-mail dirkzwager at pandora.be
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: "George F. Somsel" <gfsomsel at juno.com>
Aan: <mitchlarramore at yahoo.com>
CC: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Verzonden: zaterdag 14 augustus 2004 22:18
Onderwerp: Re: [B-Greek] KATA PROQESIN
> On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Mitch Larramore
> <mitchlarramore at yahoo.com> writes:
> > Romans 8:28
> >
> > OIDAMEN DE hOTI TOIS AGAPWSIN TON QEON PANTA SUNERGEI
> > EIS AGAQON, TOIS KATA PROQESIN KLHTOIS OUSIN
> >
> > I have read that if one reads from the early church
> > fathers, most (practically all before Augustine) took
> > PROQESIN to mean the word "choice." There was a
> > parallel thought perhaps with TOIS AGAPWSIN, that is,
> > those that love God and those that chose God.
> >
> > The translation was something to this end:
> >
> > ..to those called in accordance with a [their own]
> > choice..
> >
> > The idea I take from this understanding would be that
> > God is not said here to work all things, but that all
> > these things are working with limitation, such as only
> > to those who love God and only to those who made the
> > appropriate choice (assuming that ALL are called but
> > less than all choose).
> >
> > Without commenting on the theological implications of
> > this, can others help me think through the pros and
> > cons of this ancient understanding of PROQESIN in this
> > context.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Mitch Larramore
> > Spring Branch, Texas
> > Student/Memorial High School
> > _______________________________
>
> Mitch,
>
> I think you have been misinformed regarding the understanding of this
> passage by the early Fathers. Note what Clement of Alexandria said in
> Chapter 3 of the Paedegogus
>
>
> But the pitch does good, it is said. Nay, it defames, say I. No one who
> entertains right sentiments would wish to appear a fornicator, were he
> not the victim of that vice, and study to defame the beauty of his form.
> No one would, I say, voluntarily choose to do this. "For if God foreknew
> those who are called, according to His purpose, to be conformed to the
> image of His Son," for whose sake, according to the blessed apostle, He
> has appointed "Him to be the first-born among many brethren,"? are they
> not godless who treat with indignity the body which is of like form with
> the Lord?
> or again, in the Stromata iv. 7
>
> And the Saviour has said to us, "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is
> weak."? "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God," explains the
> apostle: "for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed, can
> be. And they that are in the flesh cannot please God." And in further
> explanation continues, that no one may, like Marcion? regard the creature
> as evil. "But if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but
> the Spirit is life because of righteousness." And again: "For if ye live
> after the flesh, ye shall die. For I reckon that the sufferings of this
> present time are not worthy to be compared to the glory which shall be
> revealed in us. If we suffer with Him, that we also may be glorified
> together as joint-heirs of Christ. And we know that all things work
> together for good to them that love God, to them that are called
> according to the purpose. For whom He did foreknow, He also did
> predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be
> the first-born among many brethren. And whom He did predestinate, them He
> also called; and whom He called, them He also justified; and whom He
> justified, them He also glorified."?
>
> Nevertheless, this is not to be a discussion of authorities on the basis
> of theology. The phrase KATA PROQESIN appears 3 times in the LXX (not at
> all) and the NT -- here and twice in Ephesians (1.11 and 3.11). The
> passage in 3.11 is of interest in that it reads
>
> KATA PROQESIN TWN AIWNIWN hHN EPOIHSEN EN TWi XRISTWi IHSOU TWi KURIWi
> hHMWN
>
> It would be difficult to assert that this has any reference to a
> choosing on man's part since it refers to that grace of God which
> manifest in an eternal choice on his part.
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list