[B-Greek] John 8:31ff
Iver Larsen
iver_larsen at sil.org
Mon Feb 9 12:58:03 EST 2004
>
> HH: I had never looked at it that way, although it is possible. I've taken
> a number of the questions by the Jews as reflecting an ignorance that the
> people could have expressed. And Jesus' words to the crowd about their
> trying to kill Him is just like 7:19, where Jesus seems to be addressing
> the entire crowd.
Who he seems to be addressing depends on which English version one is used
to read. Since you quote the KJV below, I assume that is the one you are
most familiar with. Had you been reading the NET, TEV or NLT, I think the
text would have seemed different to you.
> He is teaching (7:14).
Yes, in the temple courts. Many surround him, and the Pharisaic leaders
would have secured a front position for themselves as they always do,
pushing the crowd aside if necessary.
> The Jews in 7:15 sounds like a crowd that appreciates His wisdom.
NET: 15 Then the Jewish authorities were astonished and said, "How does this
man know so much when he has never had formal instruction?"
TEV: The Jewish authorities were greatly surprised and said,...
NLT: The Jewish leaders were surprised when they heard him. "How does he
know so much when he hasn't studied...
So, a number of interpreters understand the IOUDAIOI to be used as a metonym
for Jewish authorities. In that case the rhetorical question about him being
unlearned is somewhat derogatory. Jesus obviously knows the Scriptures, but
he does not belong to the Pharisaic group who together with the scribes had
"taken the seat of Moses" and therefore, they claim, Jesus has no right to
make himself a teacher. (Matt 23:1-12 is a rather strong attack on the
Pharisees and scribes as those who claim to be the only authorized teachers
of the Law.)
They question Jesus' authority to teach, and that is why Jesus responds as
he does in v. 16-18.
> Moses gave 'you," that is, Israel as a whole, the Law (7:19).
That depends on the sense of "give". The law was for all, but some had the
authority to teach it, and these teachers did not keep it. I don't think
Jesus is saying that no Jew was keeping the law as best they could with a
sincere heart, but the Pharisees did not. (See again Matt 23 and parallels.)
> Jesus says, in a broad generalization, that "none of you," the people,
keep the Law.
I think from parallel texts and the commonly used metonymy that he
deliberate targets the Jewish leaders, the Pharisees (and maybe scribes).
> He accuses His addressees of trying to kill Him (7:19).
Which supports the suggestion that he is in fact talking to the Pharisaic
leaders.
> The people do not understand what He is saying and think he is
> demon-possessed for making such a claim (7:20). They don't think they're
> trying to kill him and so think he's demon-possessed.
Here the Greek text says hO OCLOS, which indicates that it is not the
Pharisees. For the "crowd" and the "Jews" see also 7:12-13. The crowd in
general do not know that the Pharisees want to get rid of him, so they
cannot see why anyone would want to kill him. I suspect the "having a demon"
is pretty much like saying in English "You must be crazy".
Jesus decides not to respond to that misunderstanding and intrusion from the
bystanders in his dialogue with the Jewish leaders, so he continues to speak
to those leaders. The use of the pronoun AUTOIS (referring to main
participants) rather than "the crowd" indicates that he is addressing the
Pharisees, not the crowd.
The response of Jesus in v. 21-23 refers back to John 5:10 "So the Jewish
authorities said to the man who had been healed, "It is the Sabbath, and you
are not permitted to carry your mat."(NET)
> But Jesus seems to be saying that the action of a few is really
representative of the entire
> nation. Jesus says that they all, that is all the people, marvel when he
> does a miracle (v. 20).
I would take it the opposite way. Jesus is using a general term IOUDAIOI to
refer by metonymy to the leaders of the nation. It is the leaders he accuse
and confront, not the whole nation.
>
> So if Jesus in chapter 7 could say that the people were trying to
> kill Him, He could say the same thing in chapter 8.
Yes, but he didn't. Both in 7 and 8 he is indicting the Jewish leaders. It
is better, IMO, to go back and let the clear reference to Jewish leaders in
c. 8 clarify, if needed, that he is talking about the same Jewish leaders in
much of c. 7.
Iver Larsen
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