[B-Greek] 1 Thess 4:15 hHMEIS + substantive ptcs.
mrt
mrt at hisurfer.net
Tue Jan 6 15:59:02 EST 2004
Hi Moon,
This isn't the only time where there is confusion as to what in fact is in
view when Paul et al. uses the first person pl. pronoun "we". Sometimes it
is used for himself and fellow apostles, or the believing
community/audience, or even himself alone!
For instance, beginning with 1 Thess 4:13 he used "we" in different sense
than the "we" in the very next verse. And he does the exact same thing in
this verse, employing the first sense of the pronoun with a completely
different nuance from the second and third (if one counts FQASWMEN) instance
of "we."
In one sense Paul is contrasting hOI ZWNTES with TOUS KOIMHQENTAS ie. those
who are alive vs. dead. Looking at what Paul tags hHMEIS on to hOI ZWNTES,
whereby he limits the referent re. those who are living, ie. WE who are
living. To which is added hOI PERILEIPOMENOI ie. we who are alive and
REMAIN, which restricts the sense even more. To which is added EIS THN
PAROUSIAN TOU KURIOU further confining the sense to mean - we who are alive
and remain UNTIL the coming of the Lord.
Thus there are many qualifiers added to hOI ZWNTES and every qualifier
limits who Paul is referring to.
It is the difference between a house and a big two story with all the
trimmings house.
>From a different angle, perhaps it would help to see "we" in similitude to
TOUS KOIMHQENTAS. I mean in this sense - that both refer to the same people
except that one group is dead and the other alive. Now by tous koimhqentas
does Paul mean ALL those who have died, including sheep, dogs, believers,
unbelievers? Or just believers who have died. If the former is the case
than "we" could mean every living being. If the later were the case than
"we" would mean Paul and the trusting Thessalonian community, including
himself -which in general terms many would understand as believers
(generic). In short answer to > "But I am puzzled how Paul's language can
be further relaxed to mean "any of us Christians who are alive until the
coming of the Lord"?
If you have GGBB (Wallace's grammar), there is some discussion on the nuance
of "we" pg. 392; indexed as *number: literary plural* etc. Looking at it
now, I think it would be helpful to you.
Michael Tarver
Oregon, USA
<'\\>< laus Deo
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