[B-Greek] RE: B-Greek Digest, Vol 13, Issue 20
Con Campbell
concampbell at netspace.net.au
Sun Jan 18 12:14:15 EST 2004
RE: Greek Flashcards for Pocket PC (Edward Anton)
I emailed Olive Tree last year about the possibility of developing a
flashworks component to their highly useful BibleReader program for PPC.
They are looking into the possibility.
Con Campbell,
Canberra, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
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Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 4:01 AM
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: B-Greek Digest, Vol 13, Issue 20
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Today's Topics:
1. Acts 17:31 follow up (Mitch Larramore)
2. Re: Comparison of EIS with PROS (Paul Schmehl)
3. Re: budget GNT ? (Kevin W. Woodruff)
4. Greek Flashcards for Pocket PC (Edward Anton)
5. Re: budget GNT ? (Polycarp66 at aol.com)
6. (no subject) (cmeadows3 at verizon.net)
7. Re: (no subject) (Polycarp66 at aol.com)
8. Re: (no subject) (mrt)
9. Re: Acts 17:31 follow up (waldo slusher)
10. Col 1:24 -- "filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of
Christ" (bencollins)
11. translation question (aaron)
12. Re: translation question (Polycarp66 at aol.com)
13. Stanely Porter on Greek grammars (Kenneth Litwak)
14. Re: Stanely Porter on Greek grammars (Carl W. Conrad)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 09:06:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Mitch Larramore <mitchlarramore at yahoo.com>
Subject: [B-Greek] Acts 17:31 follow up
To: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20040117170606.12574.qmail at web9401.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Acts 17:31
KAQOTI ESTHSEN hHMERAN EN hHi MELLEI KRINEIN THN
OIKOUMENHN EN DIKAIOSUNHi EN ANDRI hWi hWRISEN, PISTIN
PARASCWN PASIN ANASTHSAS AUTON EK NEKRWN
I've been mulling over the responses to my original
post and just wanted to now confirm that I have
misunderstood the meaning of PISTIS here. It was
stated that it means "proof" as in "ground for
believing". Many people ground their belief in one
thing or another, but I think we all know that why you
believe something has nothing to do with whether or
not that belief has proof. Therefore, am I right in
assuming that "proof" is not to be understood as in
the fact that we can prove 1+1 equals 2. That to me is
what proof is. Both those who have faith in Creation
and those who have faith in An eternal Universe both
have "grounds for believing" their positions, but
since these are mutually exclusive options, at least
one has to be false, having therefore no proof. Sorry
again for rehashing this, but sometimes quick answers
give little to resolve complicated issues.
=====
Mitch Larramore
Spring Branch, Texas
Student/Memorial High School
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:35:54 -0600
From: "Paul Schmehl" <pschmehl at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Comparison of EIS with PROS
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <010101c3dd20$5db2d980$7702a8c0 at officeeagle>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Riaqo" <danielrr at eresmas.net>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Comparison of EIS with PROS
>
> It is rather clear that they are not synonymous. Sorry if I am
> repeating Robertson, which I don't have at hand now.
>
As I was reading your explanation of the distributions of EIS and PROS, I
couldn't help but think that it comported with my explanation of certain
words just not "sounding right" with other words, even though the meanings
are essentially synonymous. Then I came to this last statement, and it
completely threw me off. Perhaps you could expand on this? I took it from
your explanation of the distributions that the words *are* essentially
synonymous but are used where they are for reasons other than their
"meaning".
IOW, one would use PROS rather than EIS because of the words it refers to,
*not* because of a complete difference in meaning. Did I completely
misunderstand what you wrote?
Paul Schmehl
pschmehl at sbcglobal.net
http://www.utdallas.edu/~pauls/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 10:12:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "Kevin W. Woodruff" <cierpke at prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] budget GNT ?
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20040117181222.33108.qmail at web80208.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
The home page of the US chapter of the TBS is at:
http://www.trinitarianbiblesocietyusa.org/pages/797971/
You can order from there
Kevin
=====
Prof. Kevin W. Woodruff, M. Div., M. S. I. S.
Library Director/Reference Librarian, Professor of Bible and Greek
Tennessee Temple University/Temple Baptist Seminary, 1815 Union Ave.
Chattanooga, Tennessee 37404, United States of America
423/493-4252 (office) 423/493-4423 (home) 423/493-4497 (FAX)
Cierpke at prodigy.net http://pages.prodigy.net/cierpke/woodruff.htm
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 13:17:40 -0500
From: "Edward Anton" <edwardanton at cox.net>
Subject: [B-Greek] Greek Flashcards for Pocket PC
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <000001c3dd26$31a5efc0$6401a8c0 at DESKTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Has anyone created a flashcard program for Greek vocabulary that operates on
Pocket PC? It seems like that would be a highly useful format and tool.
Edw. J. Anton
Minister
Hampton Roads Church
Phone: 757-971-1001
edwardanton at cox.net
hamptonroadschurch.org
2129 Harbor Lane
Virginia Beach, VA 23454
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 13:35:59 EST
From: Polycarp66 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] budget GNT ?
To: cierpke at prodigy.net, b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <91.38053a98.2d3ada8f at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 1/17/2004 1:13:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cierpke at prodigy.net writes:
> The home page of the US chapter of the TBS is at:
>
> http://www.trinitarianbiblesocietyusa.org/pages/797971/
>
> You can order from there
_______
It still tacks on a %10.95 shipping charge.
gfsomsel
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:48:36 -0600
From: <cmeadows3 at verizon.net>
Subject: [B-Greek] (no subject)
To: <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
<20040117184836.JDVL10003.out008.verizon.net at outgoing.verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Carl (or anyone for that matter),
I'm an intermediate Greek (&Hebrew) student looking for more
grammars/syntaxes. I've got Mounce, Wallace, A T Robertson, and the Kittel
set. I had some questions about a few others...
1. Turner and Moulton (4 vol). Seems pricey and hard to find. Is this
worth getting?
2. Zerwick. Wallace and Mounce refer to it.
3. Fanning - on verbal aspect in NT. VERY pricey but Wallace and Mounce
like it.
Any ideas?
Thanx.
C Meadows
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:15:41 EST
From: Polycarp66 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] (no subject)
To: cmeadows3 at verizon.net, b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <2d.38b1ccf5.2d3ae3dd at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 1/17/2004 1:49:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cmeadows3 at verizon.net writes:
> I'm an intermediate Greek (&Hebrew) student looking for more
> grammars/syntaxes. I've got Mounce, Wallace, A T Robertson, and the
Kittel set. I had
> some questions about a few others...
>
> 1. Turner and Moulton (4 vol). Seems pricey and hard to find. Is this
> worth getting?
>
> 2. Zerwick. Wallace and Mounce refer to it.
>
> 3. Fanning - on verbal aspect in NT. VERY pricey but Wallace and Mounce
> like it.
>
> Any ideas?
>
________
If you can afford them, they're all good to have. May I also suggest a not
so pricey item: Moule, C.F.D. _Idiom Book of New Testament Greek_. One
other
item I just realized you haven't mentioned which I would say is an absolute
necessity if you are truly interested in Greek even though it's not a NT
Greek
Grammar but classical -- Smyth, _Greek Grammar_. It has saved me many times
when I couldn't find something I wanted in NT grammars. Don't leave home
without it.
gfsomsel
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:06:11 -0800
From: "mrt" <mrt at hisurfer.net>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] (no subject)
To: "b-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <002b01c3dd35$5b736440$95260143 at 0017606696>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> In a message dated 1/17/2004 1:49:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cmeadows3 at verizon.net writes:
I'm an intermediate Greek (&Hebrew) student looking for more
grammars/syntaxes. I've got Mounce, Wallace, A T Robertson, and the Kittel
set. I had some questions about a few others...
1. Turner and Moulton (4 vol). Seems pricey and hard to find. Is this
worth getting?
2. Zerwick. Wallace and Mounce refer to it.
3. Fanning - on verbal aspect in NT. VERY pricey but Wallace and Mounce
like it.
Any ideas?
______
I like Zerwick, I recommend that you buy it. And it's relatively
inexpensive.
https://www.eisenbrauns.com/ECOM/_1590VG32A.HTM
I also commend B-D-F (advanced grammar) should be in every serious person's
libary:
https://www.eisenbrauns.com/ECOM/_1590WANL7.HTM
No comments on the others. This might be a less expensive place for Buist
Fanning:
https://www.eisenbrauns.com/ECOM/_1590VEDC2.HTM
Michael Tarver
Oregon, USA
<'\\>< laus Deo
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:25:42 -0800 (PST)
From: waldo slusher <waldoslusher at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Acts 17:31 follow up
To: Mitch Larramore <mitchlarramore at yahoo.com>, B Greek
<b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20040117202542.67516.qmail at web41111.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mitch:
I am sympathetic to your concern, but you have to
realize that you are looking in the wrong place for
the answer to the core of your question. You will not
find the answer to ANY theological issue in a
dictionary.
Someone recently asked if OIDA meant people can know
for sure about a biblical truth (I think it was on 1
John 5:13 or something). The answer is not going to be
forthcoming in a lexicon, but in the GNT.
I think that is what you are ultimately
seeking...biblical proof, not lexical proof.
Now concerning this faith you are asking about,
consider this passage in John's gospel:
10:37 If I do not perform the works of my Father, do
not believe me. 10:38 But if I do them, even if you do
not believe me, believe the works, so that you may
come to know and understand that I am in the Father
and the Father is in me.
Here, come to "know" is not OIDA but GINWSKW. Surely
Jesus is claiming that the evidence is not impressive
but conclusive, otherwise they have an out. At the
risk of answering this theological question of yours
in Acts, I would just say here that the PISTIS that
Christ demanded was based on empirical evidence,
evidence that amounted to verifiable proof if examined
with a pure heart. And in this sense, Acts 17 uses
PISTIS since the Christian faith is often presented as
accepting as true the undeniable (the resurrection of
Jesus, in this case).
Waldo
--- Mitch Larramore <mitchlarramore at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Acts 17:31
> KAQOTI ESTHSEN hHMERAN EN hHi MELLEI KRINEIN THN
> OIKOUMENHN EN DIKAIOSUNHi EN ANDRI hWi hWRISEN,
> PISTIN
> PARASCWN PASIN ANASTHSAS AUTON EK NEKRWN
>
>
> I've been mulling over the responses to my original
> post and just wanted to now confirm that I have
> misunderstood the meaning of PISTIS here. It was
> stated that it means "proof" as in "ground for
> believing". Many people ground their belief in one
> thing or another, but I think we all know that why
> you
> believe something has nothing to do with whether or
> not that belief has proof. Therefore, am I right in
> assuming that "proof" is not to be understood as in
> the fact that we can prove 1+1 equals 2. That to me
> is
> what proof is. Both those who have faith in Creation
> and those who have faith in An eternal Universe both
> have "grounds for believing" their positions, but
> since these are mutually exclusive options, at least
> one has to be false, having therefore no proof.
> Sorry
> again for rehashing this, but sometimes quick
> answers
> give little to resolve complicated issues.
>
> =====
> Mitch Larramore
> Spring Branch, Texas
> Student/Memorial High School
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus"
> Sweepstakes
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:43:47 -0400
From: "bencollins" <bencollins at hudsonbaptistassociation.org>
Subject: [B-Greek] Col 1:24 -- "filling up what is lacking in the
afflictions of Christ"
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20040117204347.M48518 at hudsonbaptistassociation.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hello,
I'm doing some research on Col 1:24, a problem passage that refers to
Paul "filling up what was lacking in the afflictions of Christ." I've
consulted all of the greek tools on the word antanapleroo, but wanted to see
if any of you had any insight on the double compound.
As well, I searched Persius online to try to find some extrabiblical text
citations. I found one, but want to find more. Can anyone recommend a
similar
internet search tool?
Thanks
Ben Collins
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:29:32 +0100
From: "aaron" <aaron at ocnus.net>
Subject: [B-Greek] translation question
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20040118012933.19387.qmail at hosting333.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello! Could your community help with a brief translation of "Vote!" and "Go
vote!" into classical Greek? Will my mail format read the greek characters,
or do I need some other tool?
Thank you so very much in advance, with best regards, Aaron Thomas
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:46:15 EST
From: Polycarp66 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] translation question
To: aaron at ocnus.net, b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <ba.4de29c7a.2d3b4d77 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 1/17/2004 8:28:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aaron at ocnus.net writes:
> Hello! Could your community help with a brief translation of "Vote!" and
> "Go vote!" into classical Greek? Will my mail format read the greek
characters,
> or do I need some other tool?
> Thank you so very much in advance, with best regards, Aaron Thomas
>
_____
We don't do Greek with a native Greek alphabet here due to problems with
software and various capabilities of many differing computers with differing
configurations. I can give this to you here in transliteration. If you
want it in
Greek charaters, I will need to mail it to you privately. To do this, you
will need to have a font supporting polytonic Greek which you can get from
http://scholarsfonts.net/cardofnt.html
Vote! YHFIZE (pshfize -- pronounce the 'h' like 'a' in 'late', 'e' as 'e'
in 'Tet')
Go vote! ERXOU YHFIZE (erchoo pshfize -- pronounce 'oo' like 'oo' in
'cool')
gfsomsel
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:09:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Kenneth Litwak <javajedi2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [B-Greek] Stanely Porter on Greek grammars
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20040118060949.58063.qmail at web13807.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
From time to time, there are discussions here of
grammars. I was interested to read an essay recently
by Stanley Porter (the book, from Baker Academic,
itb
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