[B-Greek] RE: 1Thess 4:15 hHMEIS + substantive ptcs (TO Michael Tarver)

moon at mail.sogang.ac.kr moon at mail.sogang.ac.kr
Sun Jan 25 09:48:26 EST 2004


[Michael Tarver] said:

----------------------------------------
Hi Moon,
This isn't the only time where there is confusion as to what in fact is in
view when Paul et al. uses the first person pl. pronoun "we".  Sometimes it
is used for himself and fellow apostles, or the believing
community/audience, or even himself alone!

For instance, beginning with 1 Thess 4:13 he used "we" in different sense
than the "we" in the very next verse.  And he does the exact same thing in
this verse, employing the first sense of the pronoun with a completely
different nuance from the second and third (if one counts FQASWMEN) instance
of "we."
---
---
>From a different angle, perhaps it would help to see "we" in similitude to
TOUS KOIMHQENTAS.  I mean in this sense - that both refer to the same people
except that one group is dead and the other alive.  Now by tous koimhqentas
does Paul mean ALL those who have died, including sheep, dogs, believers,
unbelievers?  Or just believers who have died.  If the former is the case
than "we" could mean every living being. 

****************
 If the later were the case than
"we" would mean Paul and the trusting Thessalonian community, including
himself -which in general terms many would understand as believers
(generic). 
*******************

I simply want to know whether/how  taking "we" here
to mean "believers in general" is possible from the linguistic point of view
or from the rule of Greek language.

I do not think that the above explanation answers my question.
Theoretically, "we" refers to a group that includes "myself".
Even if Paul had said "we the believers", then the referent would have been
the believers at that time in contrast to the nonbelievers, who did not belong to
Paul's "we".  

Are there any clear examples in Greek literature where the referent of "we X" 
is generic?

Moon 
Moon Ryul Jung
Associate Professor
Sogang University, Korea
  


Moon R. Jung
Associate Professor
Dept of Media Technology
Graduate School of Media Comm
Sogang Univ, Seoul, Korea





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