[B-Greek] Re: "Forever" and "to be" (was "Re: Hebrews 1:8")

Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Fri Jul 2 21:23:12 EDT 2004


Dear Robert,

>I accurately cited Beduhn's argument but I gave no indication of his
>conclusions(apart from the argument itself). BeDuhn did not claim that the
>conventional reading of the text is invalid! In his book he said (with my
>emphasis) that "BOTH TRANSLATIONS ARE POSSIBLE, SO NONE OF THE TRANSLATIONS
>WE ARE COMPARING CAN BE REJECTED AS INACCURATE. We cannot settle the debate
>with certainty. But which translation is more probable?
>First on the basis of linguistics, ho theos is more likely to mean "god" as
>it does hundreds of times throughout the New Testament, than "O God," a
>meaning it has in only three other places in the New Testament.
>Furthermore, there is no other example in the Bible where the expression
>"Forever" stands alone as a predicate phrase with the
>verb "to be" as it would if the sentence were read "Your throne is
>forever." "Forever" always functions as a phrase complementing either
>an action verb, or a predicate noun or pronoun. Moreover, there is no other
>way to say "God is your throne" than the way Hebrews 1:8 reads. There is,
>however, another way to say "Your throne, O God," namely, by using the
>direct address (vocative) form thee rather than the subject (nominative)
>form ho theos. The test of asking "Is there some other way the author could
>have expressed x if he or she meant x?" is an important one in translation
>and interpretation."
>He goes on to discuss literary context.
>BeDuhn commends the NRSV, TEV and NWT for informing their readers that
>there are two ways the verse can and has been translated.
>
>I'm happy to be proved wrong, but it seems that BeDuhn's argument stands.
>It does not demand the rendering "God is your throne forever" but it is
>certainly suggestive of it.

HH: One argument that weighs heavily with me is what George said 
earlier, that "God is your throne" is a strange comment. It seems an 
inappropriate remark, glorifying man rather than God. A throne is 
something one sits on. Does the king sit on God? Could not the writer 
have expressed himself more felicitously if he had wanted to say that 
God was the strength behind the throne? This remark does not really 
convey that idea. It seems true that EINAI does not occur elsewhere 
with EIS TON AIWNA alone, but there is nothing ungrammatical about 
the construction as far as I know. There are many unique 
constructions in the Bible because of the limited corpus of material.

HH: Another argument that carries weight with me is the vocative form 
of QEOS used in the Bible, in the OG in particular, and especially in 
the Psalms. Evidently QEOS is the more normal form for the vocative 
than QEE in the Bible.  In the NT QEOS occurs as a vocative at Mk 
15:34; Heb 10:7. In the OG OT outside the Psalms there is: Is 26:13; 
37:20; 45:15; Gen 32:10; Num 12:13; 16:22; 1 Kgs 8:26; 2 Kgs 19:19; 
Ezr 9:10; Neh 3:36; 9:32; 13:14, 22, 29, 31; 1 Chr 16:35; 17:17; 
29:16; 2 Chr 14:10; 20:12; Dan 9:14-15 . In the Psalms one finds in 
the OG: Pss 3:8; 4:2; 5:11; 9:33; 16:6; 21:3; 24:22; 26:9; 35:8; 
37:22; 39:9, 18; 41:2; 42:1, 4; 43:2, 5; 47:10-11; 50:3, 12, 16, 19; 
53:3-4; 54:2, 24; 55:8, 13; 56:2, 6, 12; 58:2; 59:3, 12; 60:2, 6; 
62:2; 63:2; 64:2, 6; 65:10; 66:4, 6; 67:8, 10-11, 25, 29, 36; 68:2, 
6-7, 14, 30; 69:2, 6; 70:4, 12, 17-19, 22; 71:1; 73:1, 10, 22; 74:2; 
75:7; 76:14, 17; 78:1, 9; 79:4, 8, 15; 81:8; 82:2, 14; 83:9-10; 84:5, 
14; 93:1; 98:8; 105:47; 107:2, 6, 12; 108:1; 138:17, 19, 23; 143:9.

HH: The NT, as others have mentioned, does use the vocative QEE form 
at Mt 27:46. It occurs in the OG at 2 Sm 7:25; 1 Kgs 14:28; Ezk 4:14; 
40:7-8, 10, 12-13, 21, 24, 29, 33, 36.

HH: My search was exhaustive for QEE but may not be so for vocative 
forms of QEOS. There is no use of QEE in the Psalms, where the verse 
occurs which is quoted in Heb 1:8 (Ps 44:7 OG). If the writer of 
Psalm 44 had intended a vocative, he would surely have used QEOS and 
not QEE, and so that would be what we would find in Heb 1:8.

					Yours,
					Harold Holmyard




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