[B-Greek] hUPOMONH in the Apocalypse...Rev 13:10c

virgil newkirk virgilsalvage1 at msn.com
Sun Jun 6 02:21:07 EDT 2004


Dear Harold,

Your commented,


"Thanks. It's a plausible interpretation. I'll keep the idea in mind.
I don't know how well it jibes with the other verses in Revelation
that use the same HWDE introduction. I still tend to think Iver is
right."


Harold, to review what Iver said, which was:


"This special use of hWDE is also found in

Rev 13:18: This calls for wisdom.
Rev 14:12: This requires the steadfast endurance of the saints.
Rev 17:9: This requires a mind that has wisdom.

So, hWDE ESTIN is a short way of saying "this calls for" or "this requires"
or "here one needs to have" or "here it is important to have".

Iver Larsen"


Harold,

I can't agree with Iver because what he suggests adds subjunctiveness to 
this indicative phrase hWDE ESTIN. The writer from his perspective is saying 
by way of ESTIN that this hUPOMONH and PISTIS "is" there in that 
place..environment..situation. The fact that it "is" there can, I think be 
extrapolated out to mean it is in fact also being exercised. It is "being 
had". These set apart, holy ones are the very supply to this situation of 
the presenting and presence, not to mention testimony of hUPOMONH and 
PISTIS; I would suggest. hWDE in these verses I would say is not a "special" 
use...important, yes; special...no. "Where" something is...in that place it 
"is" that very thing. Present indicative active !

Allow me to offer what I think is an excellent example of this very thing 
and it is to be seen in the actions of the very God Himself according to 
Genesis 1:2b KAI PNEUMA QEOU EPEQERETO EPANW TOU hUDATOS.

There in that place..that environment, there was captivity. The earth was 
captive to it's situation and even though there was no killing going on; 
there was, in fact the same situation; I.E. no life, just darkness. Lack of 
life. However, can we see the presence of hUPOMONH and PISTIS...oh yes. God 
was there enduring with and carrying that situation...up close and personal! 
Over the surface of this darkness.  Was He believing...oh yes. Out of His 
enduring and confidence eventually came His speaking..Let there be light ! 
Reminds me of Luke 11:22..ECETE PISTIN QEOU.

I hope for the list, I haven't gone to far afield with this...
Please excuse me if I have,



Virgil Newkirk
Salt Lake City, Utah 



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