[B-Greek] EPI ERGOIS AGAQOIS

virgil newkirk virgilsalvage1 at msn.com
Tue Jun 8 00:06:51 EDT 2004




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George F. Somsel" <gfsomsel at juno.com>
To: <virgilsalvage1 at msn.com>
Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] EPI ERGOIS AGAQOIS


> Virgil,
>
> EPI + Dat. according to BAGD is used, among other purposes, to show
>
> 1. The person or thing because of which something exists
> 2. O purpose, goal or result.
>
> Take your pick.
>
> gfsomsel
> _________

>


George,

So which one do we pick ?...and why ? Based on what in the Greek, the
context and such-- do we make that decision ? Are we leaving out the affect
that GAR might have on this choice. Would you address this ? I say that as a
plea, btw.

BDAG also lists EPI+dative possibly indicates: marker of hostile oppostion,
against with dative.

Also: Marker in idiom of authorization, with dative; as well as a few
others, George.

Don't we have to be influenced first by context and the context even of the
verse and all that is said there ? Again I suggest that one of the most
important factors that will affect "which one we pick" is GAR at the
beginning of the verse.


Allow me to share something that confirmed (after the evaluation that I did)
my impression of the affect that GAR has on this verse.


>From "Exercises of the Greek Language" by George Dunbar with philological
remarks on the Prepostions and Conjunctions, &c. Part II. Professor of Greek
at the University of Edinburgh. Says: "The Greek particles, as well as the
English, form a necessary part of the language; but so little has their
power and original application in many places in particular expressions,
they might as well have been entirely ommited. It is probable, indeed, that
the meaning of several passages, where some of them occur, especially with
the poets, may not be much affected by passing them over in the process of
translation, or by affixing to them opposite ideas; for that depends in a
great degree upon all the words taken in connexion with each other, and not
upon a single particle, which generally indicates an obscure relation. But
if we were to attempt to write or speak the language, we would be apt to
commit several inaccuracies, which a knowledge of the nature of these
particles would probably enable us to avoid. In writing or speaking a
foreign language, we find it more necessary to weigh the force of every
word, and attend to it's particular collocation, that in the use of our own
native tongue. In the one, a number of expressions have been long familiar
to the ear, and are therefore used without hesitation, and in their proper
place; in the other we are better acquainted with individual words than
general expressions, and accordingly we find some difficulty and
embarrassment in choosing and connecting them so as to form a correct and
intelligible sentence, from one train of thought to another, in making
conditional statements, or in speaking of contingent events. It is then the
particles come into play, particularly in the Greek language; and a good
deal  of the perspecuity of the discourse, as well as the genuine idiom of
the language, will depend upon their correct use and collocation."


George--again, I request; what factors or on what do we base our "pick" ?
I'm merely questioning the pick found in most translations for EPI in Eph
2:10b, and have, I believe, some legitimate reasons for doing so.

Comments ?



Virgil Newkirk
Salt Lake City, Utah 



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