[B-Greek] EPI ERGOIS AGAQOIS

George F. Somsel gfsomsel at juno.com
Tue Jun 8 06:42:49 EDT 2004


Virgil,

There are basically four uses of GAR:

1. Cause
2. Inference
3. Continuation
4. Explanation

If we back up a bit to 2.4 (you did want context), we find the statement
that God has loved us while we were "dead."  In 2.7-10 we have a series
of two sets of hINA . . . GAR in which the hINA introduces the purpose
and GAR the explanation.  Thus this salvation if a gift of God (not from
works) in order that no one might boast.  Thus the GAR in 2.10 is used to
set forth the explanation of the preceding final clause hINA MH TIS
KAUXHSHTAI "that no one might  boast."  Finally (pun intended), there is
another final clause introduced by hINA -- hINA EN AUTOIS PERIPATHSWMEN
"that we might walk in them [ERGOIS AGAQOIS]."  This final Final Clause
tells us which we must choose here:  It is purpose, goal or result.

gfsomsel
__________

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:06:51 -0600 "virgil newkirk"
<virgilsalvage1 at msn.com> writes:
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "George F. Somsel" <gfsomsel at juno.com>
> To: <virgilsalvage1 at msn.com>
> Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 8:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] EPI ERGOIS AGAQOIS
> 
> 
> > Virgil,
> >
> > EPI + Dat. according to BAGD is used, among other purposes, to 
> show
> >
> > 1. The person or thing because of which something exists
> > 2. O purpose, goal or result.
> >
> > Take your pick.
> >
> > gfsomsel
> > _________
> 
> >
> 
> 
> George,
> 
> So which one do we pick ?...and why ? Based on what in the Greek, 
> the
> context and such-- do we make that decision ? Are we leaving out the 
> affect
> that GAR might have on this choice. Would you address this ? I say 
> that as a
> plea, btw.
> 
> BDAG also lists EPI+dative possibly indicates: marker of hostile 
> oppostion,
> against with dative.
> 
> Also: Marker in idiom of authorization, with dative; as well as a 
> few
> others, George.
> 
> Don't we have to be influenced first by context and the context even 
> of the
> verse and all that is said there ? Again I suggest that one of the 
> most
> important factors that will affect "which one we pick" is GAR at 
> the
> beginning of the verse.
> 
> 
> Allow me to share something that confirmed (after the evaluation 
> that I did)
> my impression of the affect that GAR has on this verse.
> 
> 
> >From "Exercises of the Greek Language" by George Dunbar with 
> philological
> remarks on the Prepostions and Conjunctions, &c. Part II. Professor 
> of Greek
> at the University of Edinburgh. Says: "The Greek particles, as well 
> as the
> English, form a necessary part of the language; but so little has 
> their
> power and original application in many places in particular 
> expressions,
> they might as well have been entirely ommited. It is probable, 
> indeed, that
> the meaning of several passages, where some of them occur, especially 
> with
> the poets, may not be much affected by passing them over in the 
> process of
> translation, or by affixing to them opposite ideas; for that depends 
> in a
> great degree upon all the words taken in connexion with each other, 
> and not
> upon a single particle, which generally indicates an obscure 
> relation. But
> if we were to attempt to write or speak the language, we would be 
> apt to
> commit several inaccuracies, which a knowledge of the nature of 
> these
> particles would probably enable us to avoid. In writing or speaking 
> a
> foreign language, we find it more necessary to weigh the force of 
> every
> word, and attend to it's particular collocation, that in the use of 
> our own
> native tongue. In the one, a number of expressions have been long 
> familiar
> to the ear, and are therefore used without hesitation, and in their 
> proper
> place; in the other we are better acquainted with individual words 
> than
> general expressions, and accordingly we find some difficulty and
> embarrassment in choosing and connecting them so as to form a 
> correct and
> intelligible sentence, from one train of thought to another, in 
> making
> conditional statements, or in speaking of contingent events. It is 
> then the
> particles come into play, particularly in the Greek language; and a 
> good
> deal  of the perspecuity of the discourse, as well as the genuine 
> idiom of
> the language, will depend upon their correct use and collocation."
> 
> 
> George--again, I request; what factors or on what do we base our 
> "pick" ?
> I'm merely questioning the pick found in most translations for EPI 
> in Eph
> 2:10b, and have, I believe, some legitimate reasons for doing so.
> 
> Comments ?
> 
> 
> 
> Virgil Newkirk
> Salt Lake City, Utah 
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> 
> 

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