[B-Greek] re. I Cor 15,22
Harold R. Holmyard III
hholmyard at ont.com
Sun Jun 13 15:48:59 EDT 2004
Dear Eddie,
Thanks for adding the header. You write:
>I think you are making this way too difficult and
>overlooking the plain meaning of the phrases. The text
>says no more than those EN TWi ADAM or those EN TWi
>CRISTWi are included in their separate groups. The
>only case one could argue on a grammatical basis is a
>non-universal inclusion in each group. There are two,
>separate groups.
>
>Those EN TWi ADAM do not participate with those EN TWi
>CRISTWi.
HH: Thanks, but why are the definite articles there? Do Adam and
Christ represent individuals or groups? Part of the issue is, "What
is the plain meaning of the phrases?" Another interpretation is that
EV TWi ADAM means something like "by Adam." Then EN TWi CRISTWi would
mean "by Christ," and there would not necessarily be two groups. Just
as in Adam, the individual, all die, so also in Christ all (the same
all as the "all" with Adam) will be made alive:
hWSPER GAR EN TWi ADAM PANTES APOQNHSKOUSIN hOUTWS KAI EN TWi CRISTWi
PANTES ZWOPOIHQHSONTAI
HH: Wallace (_Greek Grammar beyond the Basics_, pp. 245-46) says the following:
By the nature of the case, a proper name is definite without the
article. . . . Further, "the use of the article with personal names
is varied; as a general rule the presence of the article with a
personal name indicates that the person is known; the absence of the
article simply names him. . . . This rule, however, is subject to
considerable modification" (BAGD, sv. hO, hH, TO, II, 1.b.).
Robertson adds to this:
This seems rather odd to us in English, since the proper name
itself is supposed to be definite enough. . .
But, just because proper names are so obviously definite, the
article was frequently used where we in
English cannot handle it. But this is very far from saying
that the article meant nothing to the Greek
(Robertson, Grammar, 759).
The difficulty with the article with proper names is twofold: (1)
English usage does not correspond to it, and (2) we still cannot
achieve "explanatory adequacy" with reference to the use of the
article with proper names-that is, we are unable to articulate clear
and consistent principles why the article is used in a given instance.
_____
HH: So Paul could be using the definite articles simply because the
names Adam and Christ were well-known. But when Paul introduces Adam
in Romans 5:14, he does not use a definite article. So it makes one
ask what the particular meaning of the article is here in 1 Cor 15:22.
Yours,
Harold Holmyard
>
>Eddie Mishoe
>
>
>--- "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard at ont.com>
>wrote:
>> Dear list,
>>
>> I am in controversy with a universalist, and we are
>> discussing I Cor
>> 15:22, where one has:
>>
>> 1Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in
>> Christ shall all be made alive.
>>
>> He think that in context this verse implies that
>> everyone will be
>> resurrected to glory. I pointed out that the proper
>> nouns Adam and
>> Christ are preceded by definite articles, but proper
>> nouns usually
>> usually lack the article. The definite articles
>> before Adam and
>> Christ in Greek suggest that these could be
>> something other than
>> strictly proper names. Rather, they might function
>> conceptually to
>> represent spheres or collectives. This is the first
>> mention of Adam
>> in the context, so it cannot be the definite article
>> of previous
>> reference.
>>
>> Does this suggestion have merit? Am I overlooking
>> something? Thanks.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Harold Holmyard
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>> B-Greek mailing list
>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
>
>
>
>
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