[B-Greek] Off-topic: source for Imperial quote

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Mon Jun 14 06:02:38 EDT 2004


At 8:51 PM -0700 6/13/04, Kenneth Litwak wrote:
>--- "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
>wrote:
>> At 10:25 PM -0700 6/11/04, Kenneth Litwak wrote:
>> >    This may seem like a silly question, but since
>> the
>> >quote is mentioed in a work that is in Latin, and
>> the
>> >emperor would have presumably known Latin, why is
>> it
>> >assert4d that the original statment was in Greek
>> and
>> >that therefore there is a pun involved?  Thanks.
>>
>> Ken, I think your question has already been answered
>> by George: the pun is
>> the linkage of hUS (sow/pig) and hUIOS (son). And
>> Augustus DID know Greek
>> (he was a "college" student in Athens at the time of
>> the assassination of
>> his adoptive father Julius Caesar.
>
>HI Carl,
>
>    No disrespect meant, but of course Augsutus knew
>Greek.  My assumption is that vitually eveyrone in the
>Greco-Roan empire could at least speak Greek, though
>perhaps not read complex texts (as the papyri seem to
>indicate that even "ordinary" people could write
>shopping lists, love letters, etc.)..  I never doubted
>this.  I'm confident that virtually eeryone in the
>Greco-Roman empire was multi-lingual.  I suppose in
>fact that a Galilean Jew would be would
>quadra-lingual:  Grrek in teh Agora, Hebrew in the
>synagogue, Aramaic at  the dinner table and Latin for
>paying taxes or other interfaces with the government.
>
>
>    My question was not whether August would know
>Greek but why it is suppsoed that he used it allegedly
>in this particular instance.    It's the same issue as
>in NT studies when it is argued by someone about what
>something meant if retrojected into the "original
>Aramaic."  The problem with such statements is that we
>simply don't know whethere  there was an original
>Aramaic.

I suppose that means that your original question was rhetorical and that
your intention was not to seek information but to note that any historian's
citation of a Greek pun such as this on the lips of a native Latin-speaker
who also knew Greek is suspect and potentially apocryphal. One can only
note that his biographers cite numerous Greek phrases in Augustus' casual
conversation. There is also some doubt about whether Julius' last words
were KAI SU, TEKNON in Greek, or ET TU, BRUTE in Latin; my impression is
that the primary source for the Latin form is Shakespeare's play rather
than ancient biography. So if all you're trying to say is that we can't be
sure it's true that Augustus spoke that Greek pun about Herod, I wouldn't
argue with you.
-- 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/



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