[B-Greek] Sudject ekklesia(church)

Rick Seivert rmooster at baldwin-telecom.net
Wed Jun 16 11:51:56 EDT 2004


Hey everyone
Thanks for letting me join
I want people to check out this part of a letter I had written.


So now I want to read out of the New Strong's concordance what it says on
this word.

" was used among the Greeks of a body of citizens "gathered" to discuss the
affairs of state, acts 19:39"

Strait out of the Strong's Concordance, the very meaning that the word we
use "church", was the people who met to discuss the affairs of the state.  I
would fully expect the pacifists to be kicking and screaming when they read
this, but it is the truth.

Lets look at the example given.

Acts 19:38  Wherefore if Demetrius, and the craftsmen which are with him,
have a matter against any man, the law is open, and there are deputies: let
them implead one another.
39   But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be
determined in a lawful assembly.

The words "lawful assembly" are used instead of the word "church," because
"ekklesia" is the Greek word used here.  The King James Version decided to
change the word for some reason, whatever that reason is the end result is
the reader does not understand that the church (ekklesia) was actually the
governing body in important matters as such. Lets back up a few verses to
better understand what was going on here.

Acts 19:35  And when the townclerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men
of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not how that the city of the
Ephesians is a worshipper of the great goddess Diana, and of the image which
fell down from Jupiter?
36   Seeing then that these things cannot be spoken against, ye ought to be
quiet, and to do nothing rashly.
37   For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither robbers of
churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.

Paul, the apostles, and some friends were in some danger untill this town
clerk spoke up, these were complete heathens, worshipping an object that
they think fell from Jupiter, alright.  However they already had an
"ekklesia" or a church, which did more than worship their Goddess, they were
the ones who were to gather and decide if Paul and the apostles should face
charges.  The "ekklesia" (church) was already an established Greek word used
by Jews and heathens alike, but defining a much greater function than what
people recognize today.  There is no way around this example given here, we
have slowly in the coarse of time lost the full meaning of what the
"ekklesia" (church) was, and what it is suppose to be today.

Think about this for a minute now, why would our God set up his church to be
a body of people completely separated from positions of authority and power,
and at the mercy of a handful of heathen rulers, most certain to oppress his
people?

How could God be giving instructions to follow his statutes and judgments
throughout the bible if we (his ekklesia) have no authority to establish
them, and then no knowledge about the specifics of how these things work?

With our Christian churches today silent on all lawful matters that effect
the welfare of the people, there is no way to prevent a system of oppression
from taking shape.

Here is the first time "ekklesia" is used in the bible, Christ speaking.

Mathew 16:18 (Moffatt's translation) Now I tell you, Peter is your name, and
on this rock I will build my church; the powers of Hades shall not succeed
against it.

Christ's church was to prevail over the powers of Hades, and did for nearly
two thousand years, but we are now in the time where a lack of knowledge,
and a great falling away, will give the coming beast system, power over the
saints.  This will be the end of it all, and Christ will have to return
because we have allowed evil to prevail over us (the ekklesia).

I know how most Christians today are believing that this is speaking of the
Hades succeeding over us in the after life.  This is not the message given
here, for it is not describing us going to Hades, it is speaking of the
power of Hades not succeeding over Christ's church, which is here on earth.
The next verse reveals much more.

19 I will give you the keys of the realm of heaven; Whatever you prohibit on
earth will be prohibited in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be
permitted in heaven."

I want to read this one back to you in my words.

Christ is giving Peter and the church the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and
whatever we decide to prohibit here on earth, God in heaven will prohibit as
well, or help us to prohibit it, because we do nothing on our own.  Whatever
we permit here on earth, God in heaven will permit to happen as well, he is
not going to stop it, if we don't work to stop it.  We have the keys to the
kingdom of heaven, for we accomplish nothing on our own without the help of
God in the heavens, but the decision is ours.

If we decide we will not oppose the evils of Communism overrunning Gods
people and his church, and the nation, Gods not going to give us divine
protection, if we don't work towards this ourselves. We have the keys.

Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his
steps.

This lesson here fits right in with the teaching that the kingdom of heaven,
is both on earth and in heaven above, many scriptures show this to be true.
Moffatt's calls the "kingdom" of heaven the "realm" of heaven.

Mathew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

I may as well bring out the one argument that most often comes up on this
point.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom
were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be
delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

This certainly looks like the pacifists have some good clear language
explaining that Gods kingdom is not here on earth, and because of that we
are not to fight for any kingdom on earth.  There is however, a major
mistranslation, which has distorted the entire meaning of the verse, and it
is the word "world."  The Greek word was "kosmos" and the root meaning is
"order" or "arrangement," and many times used as the order or arrangement of
the world or the universe.

This is now out of the Strong's concordance:

"Summary Kosmos is first a harmonious arrangement or order, then by
extension adornment or decoration, and came to denote the world, or the
universe, as that which is divinely arranged."

It came to mean anyone not of the ekklasia (1577).  Kosmos, primarily,
"order, arrangement, ornament, adornment,"

The "church," can be excluded from the overall scope of this word as well,
and this would be a 2nd definition that this word can have.  We have an
English word that would fit this 2nd definition and that word is "secular,"
which is many times referred to as the "secular world," this would fit in
with the line "my kingdom is not of this secular world."  No doubt also the
line, "my kingdom is not of this world order," fits very well to, or
arrangement.  I think that the last line, "but now is my kingdom not from
hence" (this) explains that one day Christ's kingdom will be the order of
things, or it would be here and controlling the secular world some day, and
then his servants will fight.  The key word is the word now.  If the
pacifist ever comes to understand that Gods kingdom is here on earth, he
then has to realize that we are to fight to keep it.




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