[B-Greek] ekklesia(church)
George F. Somsel
gfsomsel at juno.com
Wed Jun 16 16:09:16 EDT 2004
Comments below
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:43:56 -0500 "Rick Seivert"
<rmooster at baldwin-telecom.net> writes:
> I am new here and I did not now what is to be discussed and what is
> not to
> be discussed. It seems to me that if we just limit our research to
> Greek
> words and do not apply it first to a passage, and then to a bigger
> Idea, or
> possition with explanation, formulating an opinion just because
> someone
> might disagree or be offended, than I think we are caving in to
> those who do
> not have the love of truth, sincerely.
> I do have many other Greek tools than what I had showed earlier.
> I will focus on the word Ekklesia
> I have bibles translating this word ekklesia as "assembly,"
> Rotherham's
> Version is one of them, this is not the meaning of the Greek word
> used, it
> is an incorrect translation,as is the word "church."
>
> I am not claiming that EKKLESIA can mean a "secular governing body",
> I can
> not find any other definition given for this word prior to Jesus
> Christ
> using it in the New Testament, and when he used it for the first
> time it was
> no longer going to be secular.
>
>
>
> There has been a mistranslation with the word "church" in the New
> Testament
> Greek.
>
> "The English dictionary reveals that the English word "church" which
> is used
> in our English Bible is taken from the late Greek word "kyridakon"
> not
> "ekklesia." The Greek word "kyridakon" is not found in the New
> Testament and
> only came into being in the 16th Century long after New Testament
> times.
> Thus the English word "church" cannot be translated back into Greek
> because
> there is no word in the New Testament Greek that is the equivalent
> of the
> understanding of the English word."
>
> Liddell and Scott show quite clearly that at Athens, the word was
> employed
> as follows: "an assembly of citizens summoned by the crier, the
> legislative
> assembly"
>
> In Greek culture, an ekklesia was a political assembly. By the fifth
> century
> B.C. ekklesia had come to mean an official gathering of the full
> citizens of
> a Greek city-state (polis) who were called together to make
> political and
> judicial decisions. The Greeks never used ekklesia to refer to
> religious
> fellowships.
> Expository Dictionary Of Bible Words, by Lawrence O. Richards,
> Zondervan
> Publishing House, Grand Rapids, MI)
> http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/ecclesia/ecclesia2of3.shtml
>
>
>
> Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church
> (ekklesia)
> together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them,
>
> You don't gather something together that supposedly already means a
> "gathering," or an "assembly." What they are trying to make this
> word out
> to be is impossible
>
> Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church (ekklesia) of the
> firstborn, which are written in heaven,
>
> They are trying to claim that the word ekklesia means "assembly"
> only, and
> then there was another general assembly? Well, the ekklesia was
> the
> "legislative assembly" or the "body politic" those of whom were
> qualified to
> vote, "the called out ones" or the "elders," and then there was the
> rest of
> the people, the general assembly (family or friends),
>
>
>
> An ekklesia or 'calling out' was not just an assembly. The words
> agora and
> paneguris as well as heorte, koinon, thiasos, sunagoge and sunago
> can all
> mean an assembly.
>
>
>
> .
>
>
>
> The Princeton Encyclopedia of Classical Sites (eds. Marian Holland
> McAllister, Richard Stillwell, William L. MacDonald) alphabetic
> letter A
>
> With the new division, the membership of the boule was increased to
> 500, 50
> from each tribe. The boule prepared drafts of the laws which were
> debated
> and ratified by the ekklesia, which had become the sovereign body.
>
>
>
> Can anyone show me a different meaning that this word had at the
> time?
>
>
________________
In the LXX translation of the Hebrew scriptures the word QHL for the
congregation of Israel is fairly consistently translated by the Greek
EKKLHSIA. Joel 2.16
SUNAGETE LAON, hAGIAZASQE EKKLHSIAN, EKLECASQE PRESBUTEROUS, SUNAGETE
NHPIA QHLAZONTA MATOUS, ECELQATW NUMFIOS EK TOU KOPWNOS AUTOU KAI NUMFH
EK TOU PASTOU AUTHS.
Gather the people,
Sanctify the congregation,
Collect the elders,
Gather the babes nursing at the breast,
Let the bridegroom come from his bedroom
And the bride from her chamber.
Here EKKLHSIAN = "congregation"
As regards your statement that "if we just limit our research to Greek
words and do not apply it first to a passage, and then to a bigger Idea,
or possition with explanation, formulating an opinion just because
someone might disagree or be offended, than I think we are caving in to
those who do not have the love of truth", we limit ourselves to the first
part of your progression for the most part sometimes slipping into the
second, but we always let each member form his own opinion regarding how
this applies to his general viewpoint. I.e., we try to limit ourselves
to what the meaning of a passage might be and sometimes what a concept
might mean generally in the NT. This involves not only the lexical
meaning of words but also the syntactical relationships within the
passage and how they affect the meaning. Is it the "love of the truth"
you seek or the "love of YOUR OWN 'truth'"?
gfsomsel
gfsomsel
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list