[B-Greek] 1 John 5:18: different tense indicates different persons?

Arie Dirkzwager dirkzwager at pandora.be
Sun Mar 14 08:55:28 EST 2004


There is at first the article.
In 1 John 5: 18 there is a repetition of the article hO. So it is
grammatically possible (!) that two different persons are meant.
In 1 Peter 1: 20 there is no article, but the context and the addition of
MEN ....DE proves that both pariticiples are referring to Christ.
In 1 Peter 2: 10 both partciples are following hOI. So they are referring to
the same persons.
In 1 Peter 3: 18 there is no article, but the sense and the addition of MEN
...DE make it clear that Christ is meant. Here we have two aorists!
In John 12: 29 both partciples are following hO. Both are referring to hO
OCLOS.
In 2 Cor. 12: 21both partcles are following TWN. The same persons are meant.

So the examples from 1 Peter 1: 20 on to the end make clear that it is
possible that a perfect followed by an aorist can (!) be used for the same
person(s).

Then we have in 5 examples a participle of the perfect followed by a
participle of the aorist. I do not know if there are examples of a perfect
following an aorist.

In many of the examples we can conclude that the perfect is referring to a
situation that existed before the act expressed by the aorist occurred.

I cannot prove it, but I am thinking of the Hebrew grammar (consecutio
temporum), where perfect and imperfect are following each other when in your
translation you have to make a sentence with a subordinate construction from
two independent verbs. Perhaps John and Peter were trying to express these
differences in Greek?
Or can we assume without an Hebrew influence that the particle of the
perfect expressed a situation that existed before?

In John 12 we would have "When they were standing, they heard ... and ....".
Then we would understand in 1 John 5 "And if it is true that everybody who
has been born again will not be sinning, then a person who has been born
again will guard himself and the devil will consequently etc.".

Perhaps another person will give a less speculative explanation.

Arie

Dr. A. Dirkzwager
Hoeselt, Belgium
e-mail dirkzwager at pandora.be

----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
Aan: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
CC: "Rijk van den Hengel" <rijk at vandenhengel.info>
Verzonden: zondag 14 maart 2004 12:36
Onderwerp: [B-Greek] 1 John 5:18: different tense indicates different
persons?


> (I am forwarding the following message with minor editorial changes
> (transliteration corrected {S = final sigma, C = chi, h =
rough-breathing},
> full-name signature supplied in accordance with B-Greek protocol--cwc)
>
> From: "Rijk van den Hengel" <rijk at vandenhengel.info>
> To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: 1 John 5:18: different tense indicates different persons?
> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:20:53 +0100
>
> 1 John 5:18 reads: 'OIDAMEN hOTI PAS hO GEGENNHMENOS EK TOU QEOU OUC
> hAMARTANEI ALL' hO GENNHQEIS EK TOU QEOU THREI [hE]AUTON KAI hO PONHROS
> OUC HAPTETAI AUTOU'.
>
> It is NOT my intention to discuss the text-critical issue about
> [hE]AUTON. I would like to hear your opinion about the use of the
> difference in tense in both participles.
>
> The International Critical Commentary writes about the two participles:
> 'But no explanation of the change from the perfect to the aorist
> participle is altogether satisfactory, if both are referred to the same
> person, i.e. the man who has experienced the new birth'.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. Does the fact that the first participle is a perfect and the second
> participle is an aorist really indicate that the second participle does
> not refer to PAS hO GEGENNHMENOS EK TOU QEOU?
>
> 2. Do the following combinations of participles give rise to the
> opposite assumption that the second participle refers to PAS hO
> GEGENNHMENOV EK TOU QEOU?
>   a. 1 Peter 1:20: PROEGNWSMENOU and FANERWQENTOS
>   b. 1 Peter 2:10: HLEHMENOI and ELEHQENTES
>   c.  1 Peter 3:18: QANATWQEIS and ZWOPOIHQEIS
>   d. John 12:29: hESTWS and AKOUSAS
>   e. 2 Corinthians 12:21: PROHMARTHKOTWN and METANOHSANTWN
>
> Kind regards,
> Richard van den Hengel,
> The Netherlands.
>
> ---
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>
>




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